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forced fetch

 
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Eric
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PostPosted: 08/27/07, 11:31 am    Post subject: forced fetch Reply with quote

I was wondering if anyone knows of an alternative to force fetching (using the ear pinch). I hate the thought of training my dog to fetch consistantly by using a painful method. I have heard where a stoic dog like mine has had to have a bottle cap ground into his ear in order to make him yelp to open his mouth which I think is cruel.

My boy has his FD (Sr. Hunter in the US) title and does retreive but at the next level he must retrieve all birds shot and sometimes they have as many as 9 planted. By the 3rd or 4th bird he is starting to get sloppy on retrieving by dropping and picking it up. I have ran backwards as he is coming to me during training which sort of works but of course the handler is not allowed to move on the retrieve in a test.

Any feed back would be appreciated.
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 08/27/07, 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are other methods but if you think that the ear pinch is cruel, you will not like the other methods either. You could take him to a trainer and let the trainer do it. The trainer will use the same methods, however you will not have to watch it.

Without doing this, you are not going to have a reliable fetch from the dog. 95% of the time the dog might do it correctly, but there will be the 5% of the time that the dog will give you the finger and refuse.

Just my $.02 worth. Good luck,

Chris
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Eric
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PostPosted: 08/27/07, 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Chris. Call me a softy, but I just can't inflict pain on my dog (or have any one else do it) unless it is a necessity for health reasons. I was at a field trial training clinic once and saw it demonstrated and I literally felt ill with the screaming that the dog (not mine) was doing and I had to leave. I guess I will have to be happy with the 95% retrieve.

I was at a show this past weekend and heard of a woman who is a professional trainer who does seminars on a "positive reinforcement" method of achieving the same result. If I get more info on this I will share it on this board.

Thanks again, Eric
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 08/27/07, 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem. I would bet you that the woman trainer at the show you were talking about has never crippled a duck that lands in some cattails 150 yards away, sent the dog to where she could not see it and know 100% for sure that the dog would bring back a duck. Her method may work for bumpers in the yard, a 20 yard retrieve on a quail in a hunt test, but I seriously doubt it would hold up in real situations. Believe me, dogs know when they are in a test and when they are not.

Reality is, it is not nearly as hard on the dog as they sometimes make it seem. The other thing when you get done with FF is you will likely have a much more obedient dog.

Good luck,

Chris
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Jon
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PostPosted: 08/29/07, 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't FF the dog yourself, you are missing the prime benefit of the whole training sequence. The purpose of FF training is not just to gain reliable retrieving but to cement the relationship between you and your dog. Over the years I have found that all phases of training have accelerated with a dog once the FF sequence was done. All dogs react to the pressure of this training but recover quickly once it is done. Do it in the off season-complete the whole progression (DO NOT STOP WITH THE INITIAL HOLD SEQUENCE!!!). Do it calmly and be insistent and praise lavishly when the dog complies.

When properly, patiently and consistently done, a dog of sound temperament will be a happier working dog. You will also establish that you are the undisputed head of the pack.
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 08/29/07, 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Jon.
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Bullock Outdoors
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Joined: 31 Aug 2007
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Location: Montpelier, ND

PostPosted: 09/01/07, 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you have a dog that has been through FF I would bet you will never have on that is not again! Force Fetch is a very good tool to teach the dog how to escape pressure for advanced training.

Take Care,

Travis R. Bullock
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dakotagun
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PostPosted: 12/09/07, 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know it varies with the dog's temperment, but is there a ballpark-age you'd recommend the ff training? Kita's only 4 mos old and we're workin on some basic stuff (here, heel, whoa). she's a smart little thing, and catches on pretty quick. wish we could do some water exposure, but today it's -3 degrees, all the water is hard!
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 12/10/07, 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6-7 months old is when I started.
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