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House Breaking
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Charles
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PostPosted: 08/04/07, 10:42 am    Post subject: House Breaking Reply with quote

Greetings all. New pup about 12-13 weeks old joined the family this week. We don't crate him but had small restricted area for him in living room. First night no one slept. By second day he had the whole room. Nights 2, 3, and 4 I slept next to him on couch and he was perfect. Was quiet as a mouse all night and didn't pee/poo. I took him out at 6:30 and he did his duty. This indicates to me that he can hold it when he wants to. Unfortunately during the day, even after a walk, he comes in and piddles. What is up with that?
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Billy Ray
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PostPosted: 08/04/07, 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's up with it is he's not house broke. Consistency is the key. When my dog was a pup, I was constantly taking him outside, especially after he drank. It only took a day or two for him to figure it out. At his age if he pisses in the house it's your fault, not his. Also, I wouldn't be sleeping with him unless you want to be doing that for the next 15 years. Why aren't you using a crate? It would make all of this alot easier.
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Charles
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PostPosted: 08/05/07, 9:48 pm    Post subject: piddler Reply with quote

I just thought it odd that he 'gets' the idea of holding it all night - but doesn't get holding it during the day. Since he has been with us less than a week, I think his lack of train ing is hardly my fault as you claim.

Sleeping with him worked like a charm. He is now settled and comfortable and has slept by himself quietly the last 2 nights.

On a lighter note, while hiking today he took off after a family of turkeys. I thought it strange that he didn't bark - he just tore off after them.
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Billy Ray
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PostPosted: 08/06/07, 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: piddler Reply with quote

Charles wrote:
I just thought it odd that he 'gets' the idea of holding it all night - but doesn't get holding it during the day.


How long do you think a pup should be able to "hold" it? You never answered why you don't use a crate?
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 08/07/07, 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about sleeping next to him. I slept next to mine after the first week of no sleep, now he has to sleep by me every night. Use a crate.

Chris
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Charles
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PostPosted: 08/07/07, 4:11 pm    Post subject: holding it Reply with quote

Quote:
How long do you think a pup should be able to "hold" it?


My point was that he holds it all night (6 hours), but during the day right AFTER a walk where he already peed he comes in the house and piddles. He seems to be improving though.

I don't use a crate because I don't have one. I also suspect he wouldn't like it.

Quote:
now he has to sleep by me every night


Maybe you guys are right - but after a few days of sleeping next to him, he is now fine by himself.
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Billy Ray
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PostPosted: 08/07/07, 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I also suspect he wouldn't like it.


Why wouldn't he like it? He's not a human, he is a dog. A crate is a must have item for a dog.
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kitkin
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PostPosted: 08/08/07, 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We didn't want to crate our dog either. We used to keep him in the kitchen while we were at work and at night. But then he decided to start chewing up stuff while we were gone. Like a whole roll of paper towels, my cook books, a bottle of wesson oil and finally the last straw was when he started on the cupboard doors. So we finally bought a crate. He didn't mind it at all. In fact I think he felt secure there. Even now 3 years later he will just go into his cage and lay down even when he doesn't have to. We still pen him up when we are not at home. Hope this helps you in deciding whether or not to get a crate. Believe me it was well worth the money...
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Charles
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PostPosted: 08/09/07, 9:21 am    Post subject: crate... Reply with quote

Maybe you are all right. I have never crated and I never knew of people to crate when I was growing up with dogs. The two dogs that I know now who are crated are disasters (I admit probably owners' fault). He has started into the couches a bit. I was thinking of getting a training collar and providing some tough love zaps.

Have any of you used electroshock therapy? Wink
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kitkin
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PostPosted: 08/09/07, 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never knew of anyone crating a dog when I was growing up either. In fact I've had dogs before this one in the house and never had any problems. But our wire is so high strung. Yes, we have one of those collars that you can beep to warn or give a little zap. We ended up getting one of them because when we would go out side he would decide it was more fun to run away and we would have to chase after him. And that also has been a life saver. He is a totally different dog now and usually all we have to do is beep him and he listens. Our dog also used to pee in the house after we would take him out. Until one day my husband really got after him for doing that and he never done it again. He is such a good dog now. But then he's 3 yrs old now. The only thing he does now is steal socks and wants us to chase him around the house. But this is all play. Oh, another thing make sure they get plenty of exercise. They sleep so much better threw the night.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 08/09/07, 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is any advice you get, the advice on crate training is advice to listen to!!!!!

I know you love your puppy, and I know you hope he doesn't learn to destroy things. But trust me HE WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I am going to guess that 80% of dogs that end up in shelters are there because their owners refused to use a crate during those puppy years. First its paper, then it's walls and furniture. The wife gets mad because her house is being destroyed, the kids get mad because all of their toys are chewed up, husband gets mad because wife and kids are mad. Poor puppy gets the boot!

Your puppy needs to learn to be alone. There will be times when he has to be alone and he can learn now that it's not the end of his world. Put him in his crate with his dinner, or a beloved toy... let him learn now that the crate is a good place, his safe place.

Hardly anyone used crates when I was growing up either. But dogs, many many dogs ended up being put to sleep because their owners got tired of them destroying things. Today we know better, we have tools to help us through those terrible teens!

Concerning the electric collar... this is a baby!!!!!!!!! Put a collar on that baby now, and you will ruin a perfectly good dog. Why is it ok in your mind to shock a baby puppy, but not hurt his feelings by putting him in a crate? Convoluted thinking me thinks.

E Collars are tools to be used by people who know how, why and when to use them. They are not something one should use to correct minor training issues before the dogs has training. We don't just simply strap it on and start pushing buttons. If you do, you will have a dog afraid of it's shadow.

Sign up for a good obedience class, talk with your breeder, find a mentor in the breed to discuss how to raise and live with a GWP. This is a breed who needs and craves structure in his life, needs rules and boundaries and needs to learn what respect is.

I hope you reconsider.......
Dual
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 08/09/07, 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good Dual.

Chris
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Billy Ray
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PostPosted: 08/09/07, 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it me or are there alot of people getting wirehairs who don't know what type of dog they are getting? I'm not neccesarily meaning anyone on this thread, but it sure seems like I see it alot.
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mrholm
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PostPosted: 08/10/07, 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ada joined out home (with 2 GSP) @ 8 weeks. From 8 - 11 weeks, we had her outside every 20-30 minutes during the day (so much easier to accomplish during the summer!). During her first week at home, we had to let her out a couple of times in the night when she work up. Many times during this period, we would take her outside and noticed that she did not always take care of business (that would be the puppy attention defict disorder!). We made this realization when she would come inside and immediately piddle on the floor. Needless to say, we started paying more attention and saying the command word - "piddle".

At about 12 weeks of age, by some miracle (or as a result of numerous hours of paying attention to the elimination habits of a puppy...), she stopped piddling in the house. For the past 3 weeks there has not been one accident. We are still vigilent about watching her in the house, but she lets us know when she wants out.

Developing consistent routines with a puppy can be mind-numbing, but it pays off in the long run.

FWIW: Ada (as all our dogs have) sleeps with us for some of the night and then sprawls out on the floor now. When we are out of the house, she goes to her kennel willingly (she is always fed in the kennel with the door open). In fact, she has never known anything different than being kenneled when we are gone. I would not trust her in the house - even with other older dogs to keep her company - not to tear into the furniture or something else. The other dogs @ 10 and 16 years have free range of the house.

One added note: I am a teacher so we had the luxury of having a full time puppy nanny for this summer. I realize that not everyone has this type of scheduling flexibility during the summer.

MH
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stevemiller99
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PostPosted: 09/08/07, 10:25 pm    Post subject: RE: Housebreaking Reply with quote

Housetraining that sticks is the result of two things: supervision and consistency.

Note, first of all that it's house"training" not house"breaking". Housebreaking implies that when you get it wrong, you get punished; housetraining implies that when you get it right, you get rewarded. The only way your puppy knows if he gets it right is if you let him know he got it right--that's a reward! Dogs are not that much different than kids--you don't toilet train a toddler by letting him/her wander around the house without a diaper and hope they find the toilet on their own. You're responsible for the training, not your puppy.

Dogs are instinctive denning animals. In other words, they will not potty where they sleep unless they have to (i.e., their den is too big or they're in it too long). Crates take advantage of this instinctive behavior by creating a "den" for the puppy, but it has to be just big enough to stand up, turn around, and lay down. There are a number of creates that have dividers to help grow the crate with the dog, but you have to use positive crate training for your puppy to use his crate. There are a number of books out there on crate training as well as DVD's, etc. at PetSmart.

However, dogs are also social animals and require contact with their pack (that's you) to be happy and well adjusted. Their preferred place to sleep is "with" the pack (on your bed). The crate is a great compromise but needs to be in your bedroom so that you can hear your puppy at 3 am when he needs to get up and potty.

I consistently crate my GWP and had her housetrained in under a week. At the same time, however, she's still a puppy and with consistent supervision she's still done about a $1000 worth of damage in the last 2 months. I can't imagine not crating a GWP puppy given the amount of mischief they can create.

Get a good book on potty training or research the subject on the internet. Here's one link http://www.petsmart.com/uc/petarticles_db.jsp?ucCategory=ARTICLE&ucTopic=DOG&ucSubTopic=TRAINING&ucSubTopic2=&ucContent=/articles/content/dog_cat/training/housebreaking/241.html

Once you and your puppy get in the groove, it shouldn't take too long.

Best of luck.

Steve
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