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Boar hunting
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larry
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PostPosted: 12/16/06, 11:06 pm    Post subject: Boar hunting Reply with quote

Is it true that the GWP was used on large game in Germany. Then as game like boar and deer became less the breed was turrned into a smaller hunting dog more suited to hunting fowl. If this is right would thay still have the heart to find stop and bail wild boar or pull down a deer. It would be a shame that such a lion hearted dog should be transformed into a retriever of dead ducks and pointer of quail. Does anyone know if the big game side of this breed is still used today.
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allourmuddys
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PostPosted: 12/17/06, 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GWP is the english translation of "Deutsch Drahthaar" - which in its past was used for wild boar. As far as the GWP being used for that type on hunting today, I would suspect it isn't, hear in the US anyway. I know in Wisconsin it is legal to use dogs to track wounded deer, but you need to keep them on a leash and that hasn't been in effect for too long.
As far as the lion hearted aspect of the breed, you will find them to be very devoted and loyal to their "family" and that devotion can spill over to the protection of the home.
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larry
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PostPosted: 12/18/06, 4:21 am    Post subject: Boar hunting Reply with quote

Thank you allourmuddys for your reply. I see some of the people having a sniff around the topic look a little gun shy. I was reading a little about the GWP/DD debate. I won't shoot any holes into that bee hive. Looks like there are enough hive hunters already, sorry enough said!

You said something about using them for boar in the past was this in Germany or the USA? Do you know what hunting style the dogs used ie. point or bail?

The idea of tracking wounded deer on a leash sounds good but may get a little tough on the hunter and the dog if you start pushing through the tight bush not to mention slowing the final kill. If the law makers are worried the dog is going to kill the deer maybe this is a better end than slowly bleeding to death in a cold river. As hunters we must respect all our quarry with the quickest kill possible. And the politicians should stick to playing with bee hives.

As a gaurd dog will this breed use it's bite to back up the bark or in a watch dog style bark then run behind the house when it's time to put his body on the line. Many a dogs is brave when a jogger goes by.
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katababa
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PostPosted: 12/18/06, 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry,

here is a thread off of another forum about DD's and boar hunting .. .


http://forum.versatiledogs.com/viewtopic.php?t=4487
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katababa
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PostPosted: 12/18/06, 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the bark to backup a bite . . .i have no doubt that my gwp would go after someone attacking me, i've seen him do it. There are also other people who have gotten mugged or attacked and their gwp was there and they protected their people.

I remember when i first got my pup, my breeder told me that when he got bigger, especially because i lived in the city, this dog would not hesistate to bite a mugger ect.

Honestly, I'll walk down a dark alley with this dog and I wouldn't be scared.
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larry
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PostPosted: 12/18/06, 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Katababa for the link. Gate training or bay pen training has its place. Mainly to see if the dog has a interest in boar. however these dogs can become specialist in this work and when it comes to the dark creepy bush dogs that look good in the pen suddenly look at the boss as if to say after you.

I like the idea of the dog getting marked down if it holds the boar a good dog should find and bail until the boss gets there to shoot it. I have a deep respect for a good hunting dog and man made meatheads that some hunters use give hunting with dogs a bad name.

Your dog sounds very loyal in a guard dog sence congratulations on such a good find.
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Jon
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PostPosted: 12/18/06, 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been on two hunts where DD have been used to drive game and to track wounded game. However, I would say the breeds of choice to drive game during "driven hunts" would be the German Jagdterrier as well as Wachtels, which are also used for trailing/tracking wounded game.
DD are sometimes used to push game out of heavy cover forcing them to run where hunters are posted in stands. This can be quite dangerous, especially with wild pigs. In close quarters wild pigs are very quick and dogs can easily be slashed and injured. For this reason, large, cumbersome dogs are not the dog of choice for this kind of work. Athletic dogs, with good endurance that are quick on their feet are better suited to this kind of hunting. A good friend that owns the Ahornwald kennel had both his stud dog and best bitch seriously injured in an encounter with pigs in a field of Rapps (safflower seed) which is very difficult to run through.
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katababa
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PostPosted: 12/18/06, 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's funny you say that larry . . .my trainer says the same thing . . .he tells me all the time his grandfather used to say you pay extra for a dog like that (when i complain about mine being so protective)

it's actually quiet ironic, i was talking a girl today that has english pointers and she was telling how they'll bark at someone coming in the house, but only to welcome them into the house. she said that there is a running joke among the english pointer she knows that the pointers would give a rober the keys to the house.
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Butterfly
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PostPosted: 12/19/06, 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

about the biting factor. Last winter as I was getting in my car at our local mall a guy tried to force his was in. Jake was in the back seat and jumped over to the front got in my lap between me and the steering wheel and let him know he would be going thru him if he wanted in the car. There is NO DOUBT in my mind if the guy pushed it Jake would have bitten him. I had a hold on his collar to keep him from doing that. The vet said I should have let Jake go, probably would have taught that man a lesson.
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larry
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PostPosted: 12/19/06, 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Jon. What kind of game was being driven by the DD the day you used them?

What breed of dog does the Ahornwald Kennels work with?
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Jon
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PostPosted: 12/19/06, 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahornwald is a DD kennel. Several males from this kennel are pictured on the German VDD site. Konsul vom Ahornwald was the stud dog I mentioned that was injured during a hunt in Bavaria several years ago. The bitch that was injured was Luna vom Ahornwald, a stunning and very talented black roan "rocket".

I try to go to a hunt outside Berlin every year in January. Shooting is allowed for red deer spikes, cows and calves, spotted deer cows and calves, all pigs except leading sows, all roe deer except mature males and all fox. This type of hunting is not about sport, just about keeping the balance of game on the various leased properties. This lease is about 10,000 acres and the total cull is about 400-500 combined total of these species. All are field dressed and sold after testing and certification to local butchers. The real highlight of this hunt is the evening festivities with wives and families, with some of the best wild game I have ever eaten.

The rewarding work is the tracking work when wounded animals can't immediately be found. I can't say that DD are as good as the specialists (like the Hannoverian Schweisshund) but they do some pretty amazing work. We have not lost one animal over the past three years, even when the track has been taken up many hours after the shot. This work can be dangerous - following a wounded hog into dense vegetation requires careful thought and tactics.
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Tony
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PostPosted: 12/20/06, 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Boar hunting Reply with quote

larry wrote:
Is it true that the GWP was used on large game in Germany. Then as game like boar and deer became less the breed was turrned into a smaller hunting dog more suited to hunting fowl.


I am just guessing here, but I'll bet it was the other way around. In North America, we have more deer and hogs than we did 40 years ago, but fewer birds. I doubt if it is much different in Europe.

I have never heard of anyone going to Germany for a wild bird hunt, but I know several people who have hosted Germans here in the US.
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Jon
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PostPosted: 12/20/06, 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony,
There are several areas in Germany where there is decent small game. I have been to tests in Bavaria where all dogs had multiple opportunities to point wild pheasant and track hare. Rheinland-Westfallen and the Munster area have decent numbers. The test a few years back in Wesel near the Dutch border produced some good game numbers. I know of hunts in southern Bavaria where dozens of pheasant and upt to 300 hare have been shot on one weekend!! (Now I know you consider hare to be vermin and beneath your dog!!!) Overall, though, DD are used much more for large game than here-simply because the laws allow it. I'm not aware of anywhere in the US where you can use dogs to drive game to hunters.

The assumption that there is less big game in Germany is false. There is excellent big game hunting over most of Germany and wild hogs are overrunning the country-they have become a big problem.
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larry
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PostPosted: 12/21/06, 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Jon"]Ahornwald is a DD kennel. Several males from this kennel are pictured on the German VDD site. Konsul vom Ahornwald was the stud dog I mentioned that was injured during a hunt in Bavaria several years ago. The bitch that was injured was Luna vom Ahornwald, a stunning and very talented black roan "rocket".

Jon, Do you know if these dogs were tracking wounded boar after the shot. Or did they work out and bail them away from the hunters? It sounds like these dogs went in and held or maybe got tangled up in the under growth with the boar. If this is possible on these hunts do they use rip collars or vests for protection? It's good to see stud dogs out there doing it and not being hidden in the kennels.
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Jon
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PostPosted: 12/21/06, 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

larry,

Both these dogs got caught in close quarters with the pigs. Its my understanding that the male made the mistake of taking on a young hog at the "business" end and got badly bitten. The bitch had a deep puncture to the chest which bled out quite severely.

I have never had a discussion with anyone in Germany that uses vests on dogs. The sire of one my bitches, Karlo vom Landhagen, and my favourite stud dog in Germany right now, is used a lot on pigs as well. But the owner is very experienced and all his dogs have been well trained and under control at all times. Karlo has dragged out a few Frischling (yearling pigs) from the brush over the years, but the dog understands how and when to latch on. This dog is also a very hard pointing dog and has produced a number of younger important stud dogs.
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