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doesn't come back
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ladybug
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PostPosted: 11/27/06, 5:33 pm    Post subject: doesn't come back Reply with quote

I have a 7-8 mo. old GWP that I rescued about 2 months ago. He is a perfect dog who is well behaved and wonderful in all ways but one. He doesn't come back when called.
I work on recalls with him every day in our fenced yard which he does pretty well with but he knows when he is in an unconfined area and he runs as fast and as far as he can. This includes dog parks, I can't take him any more because I simply can't get him back and I am afraid of him getting out of the dog park and never finding him again! I am told to just keep working with him and he will get better over time as he learns the recalls. Does everyone agree with this? I am expecting too much since I have only had him for 2 months?
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diana
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Location: Pollock Pines, Ca.

PostPosted: 11/28/06, 9:01 am    Post subject: catch me if you can Reply with quote

My GWP is now almost a year old and it is as if you were describing her. With all the training classes we were in, she just wanted to run. When I would call her she would look at me then take off as fast as she could. I have a feeling this is very normal for these dogs. But for their on safety they have to learn to come when called. We did it by getting a training collar. The one we got has many settings. The first ones are sound and the others are shocks, from very light to knock your socks off. We have only used the first setting in the shock mode once. Since then if we have to really get her attention the sound mode does the trick. We now have no problem with her coming when we call. It is like she is saying, "Oh, you're serious!". The investment is well worth it!!! diana
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ladybug
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PostPosted: 11/28/06, 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does she respond if she is not wearing the collar? I have read that this may be a problem with using the shock collar... they know when they have it on and wil not respond if it isn't.

Also, have you had her all of her life or did you get her as a rescue?
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diana
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PostPosted: 11/28/06, 5:49 pm    Post subject: collar Reply with quote

We have had Molly since 8 weeks. We only use the collar when she is out in the open. She is fast and if she catchs a scent she is off, tuned into the scent. The collar is good for getting her attention, rather than screaming for her to come. The sound setting works great. The collar has helped her to know we mean business when we want her to come. She is now paying attention to what we want her to do even without the collar. It was the best investment that we made for her.
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Wooky
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PostPosted: 12/01/06, 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We also bought the collar for our GWP Koda, we have had him since he was 4 months old and other than the running away is a wonderful dog. It was just nerve wracking going out into the woods and being afraid he would run off and get lost (we have coyotes out in our area). We used the shock setting once when the sound setting didn't do the trick and now the sound setting is all we need. He also listens better now even without the collar, stays alot closer to our side and tries not to let us get too far away. He has his moments still but I think it's cause he has alot of puppy left in him as he is not yet 2. The Collar was so worth it.
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ladybug
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PostPosted: 12/02/06, 9:17 pm    Post subject: e-collar training Reply with quote

I am really glad to hear that others have this problem with their wirehairs! It is somehow comforting to know I am not the only one. I knew they are an indepently minded breed but I didn't expect him to keep running away!

I just bought an e-collar as this seems to be the best way to ensure we don't lose him. Now I just need to know how to train recalls with it. I have heard a lot of warnings about training with a collar as they can really "ruin" a dog used inappropriately. Any tips?
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admin
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PostPosted: 12/12/06, 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are several articles on the Dobbs website for e-collar training

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/index.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/index.html
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allourmuddys
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PostPosted: 12/13/06, 6:40 pm    Post subject: Doesn't come back Reply with quote

We had similar problems with our female. After we were confident she would heal on leash, we used a 50' check line and a semi-enclosed area (baseball field). We teamed up with the help of our kids at the exits - let her venture out away from us, then called her back - each time letting her get a little further from us. If she bolted, we stepped on the check line and corrected her. It took some time but it worked. Good Luck!!
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Jon
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PostPosted: 12/13/06, 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a simple problem. Get a collar that beeps or vibrates. Work with the dog on the check cord. Command "come" (or better yet whistle)as you hit the pager (or tone). Haul the dog in if necessary. Praise the dog ONLY when it responds appropriately. Once the dog is responding properly to the whistle and pager it is time to go to the field. Let the dog get away from you in search mode-then whistle and hit the pager at the same time. If the dog does not turn immediately, hold down the continuous stimulation (BUT at a level that irritates-DO NOT PUNISH). When the dog turns toward you, let off the stimulation and whistle again.
DO NOT demand the dog come all the way to you(you don't want to teach the dog to yo-yo) but simply turn and walk in a different direction. As the dog goes by you simply say"Good girl/boy" and continue on.

It rarely takes more than 20 minutes for a dog to understand if you have done the yardwork. You MUST be lavish in your praise, especially with a young dog so that it is understood what behaviour you want.
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allourmuddys
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PostPosted: 12/13/06, 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

I've heard of dogs getting collar shy if they are overcorrected. One person I talked to said if they had the collar on the dog it would behave perfectly, have you had any experience with this?
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Jon
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PostPosted: 12/14/06, 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES-most definitely!!!

I put a collar on a dog when it is 5-6 months old-everyday when we train or run. I don't use it with young dogs until I have completed the basic training the old fashioned way. The collar actually becomes a signal that we're going to do fun things.

The folks that get in trouble with collar wise dogs are the ones that only take it out to correct a problem. That's a no-no. If you do all the yard work without the collar and use the collar properly to steer not to punish, you will be able to take it off once the dog is trained. But the collar should go on everyday whether you use it or not. I keep mine on while hunting because it allows me to handle without whistle or voice, which keeps more wild birds in the field. I also have control in an emergency.
Our dogs bounce up and down when the collars come out-because they know they're headed to the truck and to the field.
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ladybug
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PostPosted: 12/15/06, 12:54 pm    Post subject: one more thing Reply with quote

Okay, we had the yardwork down previously so I started taking him out on the check cord a few days ago with the collar. I had him wearing the collar for a while first so he also thinks the collar means "we are going to have fun".

The problem is.... he is confused at the sensation of the collar and scratches at it. I can understand because I tried the stimulation on myself when I first got the collar and it made me want to scratch also. Should I just pull him in with the check cord as he is scratching.. or should I just keep the stimulation going until he starts returning to me? Also, if I turn the stimulation down a level he makes no reaction like he does not feel it at all.
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admin
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PostPosted: 12/15/06, 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your dogs need to learn the sensation he gets from the e-collar is a correction. I handle this by using the e-collar with a command the dog already knows, pretty soon they figure out that compliance turns it off. Timing is important so you need to anticipate the dogs actions a little. If he's scratching at it, the collar might be turned up a little to high as well..
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allourmuddys
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PostPosted: 12/16/06, 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ladybug,
Have you looked at the two websites about collars? I was reviewing them and there is a lot of good information about collar training. With any training aids, you need to use them to reinforce the "come" command. Have you been through obedience training with him? If not, it would be really a benefit for you and him. Another thing we've found is to take the dogs out for a long walk before any training. Note; when I say take him for a walk, it should be a walk that you are in control with him healing by your side, not pulling or distracted by every smell along the way. This helps him be more receptive to training - it's a physical as well as a mental workout for them.
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ladybug
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PostPosted: 12/16/06, 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, we have gone through obedience, although I don't feel it was a very well-run course. They only suggested postive reinforcement for everything and this works to a point but I think our dog needs more instruction than this, especially with his desire to roam. They had only blank stares when I kept describing our issues with him.

And yes, he knows the meaning of "come" We do this command consistently in the yard and he complies, it is off leash that we have problems. This is why we are working with a long check cord in fields. I know that he is hearing the command but he is not resonding to it because the sensation of the collar is making him scratch. And this get us back to the original question I asked.... should I wait until he complies to the command after scratching or should I reel him in with the check cord? And he makes no response at the next sensation level down from the one that makes him scratch.

So, my question is how do I let him know this sensation is a correction????
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