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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 03/03/08, 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Look down your nose types"
-Pot calls Kettle black

VDD Members work together, for the betterment of THE BREED.
No breeder claims superiority. No breeder claims "Setting the Standard". No breeder makes nonsensical claims. Theres Not much room for inflated egos in the VDD. But there are some Dynamite Breeders & dogs out there.. Tracking dogs, pointing dogs, retreving dogs..

One need only read through the thread to see who the Antagonist is (Chumpechanger).
One can see Who has a Superiority complex.
Or Who insults those that merely adhere & Promote the FCI Standard of breeding.

If you Ran in an OPEN State Championship, post it.
Many Western States have them..
I posted Timo V Richtof. Most Finds of any dog in SD Open, last dog to run. 3 longtails ahead had 0 finds. He won.
I know little of the test & dont care really, just an aside. But he was steady & a retreiving machine. He was univited afterwars to almost every hunt scramble he entered. He Was a machine.

I mentioned this as our dogs were called "Plodders" in a previous page by your brother.
But for being "Plodders" they seem to excel & be in demand from Alaska to the Chukar Canyons from Snake River to Newfoundland bogs for Ptarimagan & all parts in between.

I dont sell dogs, breed dogs or promote dogs. I dont have a website. I dont make claims of setting standards that are subjective at best..
But I do believe in Standard testing. I like & promote Navhda for American Registered dogs, though I think when Navhda became a Registry-you saw changes..for the worse, money corrupts.

Geman & German inspired testing has given us the Best Working & Sporting dogs the world has ever seen., I wish to only see it continue.
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ME
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PostPosted: 03/03/08, 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
-Pot calls Kettle black


If kettle is black call it so..

Quote:
VDD Members work together, for the betterment of THE BREED.


Yeah there has never been an ego in the VDD from what I understand you have to have an egobotomy to become a breeder.

Quote:
One need only read through the thread to see who the Antagonist is (Chumpechanger).
One can see Who has a Superiority complex.
Or Who insults those that merely adhere & Promote the FCI Standard of breeding.


FCI standards are great if you are a member of that group. But don't apply them to those outside of the group.


Quote:
I posted Timo V Richtof. Most Finds of any dog in SD Open, last dog to run. 3 longtails ahead had 0 finds. He won.
I know little of the test & dont care really, just an aside. But he was steady & a retreiving machine. He was univited afterwars to almost every hunt scramble he entered. He Was a machine.


So did you ever see this dog? Did you ever pet it? have you even seen a picture of it?

He had the most finds because the there were at least 16 birds in the field if there were 3 dogs running before him and they didn't find a thing. Since they put down 4 birds per dog no matter what. He was univited afterwars Now I try to write in legible english, which help keep us from talking past one another, but what the heck does this mean?


Quote:
I mentioned this as our dogs were called "Plodders" in a previous page by your brother.
But for being "Plodders" they seem to excel & be in demand from Alaska to the Chukar Canyons from Snake River to Newfoundland bogs for Ptarimagan & all parts in between.


Yeah and the lab is the most popular hunting dog in the USA and they are plodders! The ones he has seen are. I have seen some that aren't but there are always exceptions.


Quote:
I dont sell dogs, breed dogs or promote dogs. I dont have a website. I dont make claims of setting standards that are subjective at best..
But I do believe in Standard testing. I like & promote Navhda for American Registered dogs, though I think when Navhda became a Registry-you saw changes..for the worse, money corrupts.

Sounds like you are promoting DD's here!

Setting the standard in WI! not the world.

NAVHDA is not the standard it is a breeders club.

The standard is a dog that can and will hunt everything that you want to hunt from bunnies to geese or track your wounded deer. Actually hunting! I know of a VC DD that is in WI that at the time, still never had a wild grouse shot over it! This is WISCONSIN there are GROUSE everywhere. Plenty of birds at the game preserve though. Also know of a VDD breeder whose bitch that he is breeding [now this was a few years back] couldn't figure out grouse in 2 seasons of hunting them. I don't know if see ever did. This dog had all the VPG XYZ WGK QTR test scores you need from the VDD. Great coat and had a great temperament. But that dog was not breed worthy in WI if it can't handle grouse! No egos there, but had the test scores! from the VDD which is your standard..

Hunting is the standard not walking in the field with some judges. If you are honest you know Wink

Quote:
Geman & German inspired testing has given us the Best Working & Sporting dogs the world has ever seen., I wish to only see it continue.


See above:
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 03/03/08, 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far as "hunting being the standard" One does Not buy a DD to trial! They are not AKC registered to play dog games. DDs ARE hunting dogs, bred By hunters, for hunters, to hunt, but bred to a Working standard intact 100+ years.


There have to be standards for BREEDING, lest we have a free for all.
Thats the point.
"Hunting" doesnt define any Objective standard... for BREEDING.
Track records for any Americanized breed...from working to Sporting breeds. All are in worse shape with perhaps a few exceptions then when exported.


I dont promote the VDD. I like the VDD. I also like Navhda. I like HRC.
Egos are set aside in the VDD at test & Breed time. Dog is either breedable or not..contingent upon satisfactory physical, temperment & multiple ability evaluations with all scores recorded & Shown
I dare say one cannot make any money breeding DDs. Its too limiting & Strict. Stud Max 6 breedings per year. Bitch cant be bred before 2, only once yr thereafter until 8.

Timo V Richtof? A German import.
Pic? yes..theyre online. You can research him. German Hegewald winner.


OPEN TESTS, Rules are as follows in most cases:
1. 20 points for each bagged pheasant in hand
2. 15 points for each "find" (point)
3. 10 points for each retrieve within one (1) step of hunter(s)
4. 5 points for each remaining loaded shell
5. 1 point for each full 20 seconds under the allocated qualifying time limit; time stops when last bird is in the hunter’s hand
Tie scores will be broken 1st by retrieving points; 2nd by remaining shell points; and 3rd by lowest qualifying time.

Rules vary per state, not sure if planted or wild game.
I know conditions were tough & 3 nice longtails failed to find any birds.
If youve won a state OPEN Championship, please share. If not, the plodder comment, like most of the comments, are hogwash.

There are good & bad dogs in both camps. But generally the bad ones arent bred in the VDD.
I dont claim any superiority but point out non sense.
VDD has minimum standards. In USA, there are none.
There are however, many, many DDs used on grouse, in your state & in others. There are many more used on many other game & the breed remains the Pre eminant Versatile hunting dog in the world.
Wisconsin is a ripple in a sea..despite your near sightedness.

I dont know many GWP owners that encourage tracking or have certified theirs through deer search. Im a nuisance deer hunter & my is used to that end..


Im not being contentious, I have nothing against you or your dogs. Just that Chumps claims of "Setting the Bar" are absurd.
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ME
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PostPosted: 03/03/08, 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the line is.. "CHUMP CHANGE WIREHAIRS" set the standard for german wirehaired pointer water work!!!.

If you can prove this to be a lie go for it.

My brother hasn't bragged about anything that his dogs can't do. Don't need to fry them to get them to do a duck search.

So it seems to me that you are making up a straw man that is carrying a red herring so that you can tear it down.

Quote:
OPEN TESTS, Rules are as follows in most cases:
1. 20 points for each bagged pheasant in hand
2. 15 points for each "find" (point)
3. 10 points for each retrieve within one (1) step of hunter(s)
4. 5 points for each remaining loaded shell
5. 1 point for each full 20 seconds under the allocated qualifying time limit; time stops when last bird is in the hunter’s hand
Tie scores will be broken 1st by retrieving points; 2nd by remaining shell points; and 3rd by lowest qualifying time.


Obviously you have never been to one of these events if the dog stops for a second and then goes in and takes out the bird that is considered a point. Only the first retrieve needs to be made to within 1 step of hunter. The others the hunter can move towards the dog to shorten up the retrieve length.

These games are nothing!

He must have won because there were 16 birds in the field and other dogs only had 4 to find. So with every find he could get another 45 pts. I believe you only get 8 shells also maybe 6 it has been a while.

They can be fun to do but are not a display of breeding material.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 03/03/08, 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I do not care for slow big boned german drahthaars, no matter how good of a coat they have. They can not run, they have no range, and are slow a foot. They PLOD. They are glorified griffons with harsher coats. Heck I might as well get pointing lab if that is what I want to see afield."

His statement, & one of the most foolish Ive ever come across.

I can get details on TIMOs win, i think it was a wild bird trial & he won it.
But youll find another reason to try to discredit his performance.
Timo was proven In Germany, tested & hunted on WILD Game strictly, & then Imported here & hunted on wild birds from SD to MI grouse woods. THink he was even dog of the year in the venue he ran in but thats not what made him great. 1 element only..

Every DD needs electric? More BS, I dont own an e collar. Many just like me.

If you bother to view the VDDs website (Their only marketing) it speaks for itself. The VDD is growing amongst hunters exponentially in the last decade. Its not hype selling dogs. Hell, they hardly market. In these 2 pages, youll see ptarmigan, spruce, ruffed, chukar, huns, Sharpies, Huns, Crane, Waterfowl & lots of furred game.
http://www.vdd-gna.org/photogallery2.php
http://www.vdd-gna.org/photogallery4.php

You can see dogs hunting from across the nation on wild game. Breeders also include their own photos. This IS a Hunting, Not trialing, Not Showing, Breed. And bred to a Working standard.

Ive nothing against the GSP, GWP or any dog for that matter, but brothers posts are evident of near sightedness, insanity, small town itus, & possible chemical dependency. He needs to get out of Park Falls sometime..
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Jon
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PostPosted: 03/04/08, 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C'mon guys, there are great dogs on both sides of the fence and we're never going to convince each other that one or the other system is better.

ME, go to the Backwoods Kennel site and look at the Danish FC that Dixon has bred to. This dog is right out of German lines (this dog's sire is huge!!) and I doubt he's being used because he is a plodder. Ever hear of DC Lutz zur Cadenburg MH, TD-was a German import that didn't start training til he was 3! How about Loccoca's dog-another FC straight out of DD stock.

Trust me - enough run is not a DD problem.

C'mon and play nice boys. You seem to forget that 90% of the folks in both groups are happy right where they are and prefer their own genepool anyway. Let people be happy.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 03/05/08, 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,
Ill post Backwoods Site with photo of Sixtus. What a beauty!

And imagine, a lowly FCI Bred Drahthaar & a Field Trial champion at that..sounds like they are going over to the "Dark Side"

I didnt think Drahthaars had any run though?

http://www.rockcreekwalkers.com/Available%20Dogs.htm
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah from the looks of this kennel they need more DD blood in their dogs since it looks like they have been breeding for the pointer from the PP part of the DD blood.. Sixtus is the only dog that looks like a GWP.. Don't know how big Sixtus is but he looks like about 60 lbs Hard to tell with out something to scale him to..




Look at all the rest of these dogs on the studs page!! They are all white they look like GSP's or pointers.. Not much duck hunting going on with these dogs I bet..

And from what a buddy of mine tells me about the FT game it is about run and having a broke dog. That is it.. If you bring a broke dog you got a chance of winning every time. Not much to that then really, just a steady run away dog..
















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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ME-Visit your eye doctor...Time for a new prescription. You couldnt be more Wrong about Sixtus. See Link.

Rather large at 66cm, or 26in Tall. I estimate weight at a solid 78-80lbs, looks well proportioned..
http://www.katholts.dk/english/sixtus_eng.htm
There are Standards with FCI, remember? I dont know if Ive ever encountered a 60lb male, ever in the VDD.

The part of your statement that did make sense, was the look of the other dogs..seeing as they emphasize trialing, I understand the motivation of their breeding and the by product (looks) of it. And I dont understand why a Drat would be of value..Enter the Dark Side, Luke.
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this dog is 26" at the shoulder.. And even in his best shape he was never over 70lbs.. And this dog could flat out run and do a duck search second to none and that is because he was strong as a bull.

I don't think your estimate of the weight is correct.

I don't think that this supposed #80 dog runs in 2 hr stakes with the pointers...


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Jon
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ME,

This dog IS 26" tall, weighs 33kg and he IS a Danish Hunting Champion and to do that a dog has to be successful in brace trials (this dog took a 1st in one trial and then a third in the Nationals) , have a VGP 1, 400 meter bloodtrack (3-5 hrs old), Full Retrieve test (water and land lined retrieves), coat/conformation Prize 1, HD Free--I think that's it. This dog got all that done by the age of 3 1/2. A friend of mine trained with the dog and says that this dog is the real deal. This dog's sire, Sepp vom Wulften is also a big dog - 26" and 75-80lb.

Trials in Denmark are walking trials--dogs work 2-300 yds and are expected to sweep in front at a high rate of speed. They must be completely steady and back and style is expected. Dogs point, then flush on command, sit on the flush and then wait to be sent for the retrieve. Impressive stuff....

Why don't you stop blowing smoke....
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

33kg = 72.7 lbs

Hardly the big boned dog.. He isn't any bigger than my dog.

My dog did a 300 yard blood track this fall on a 14 hour old trail after it had snowed 3" over night and found the still live deer which I then killed.

Jon this is not the big boned plodder of a DD which we are talking about. So don't try to bait and switch..

He isn't any bigger boned than my dog...

All by the age of 3 huh.. Must not have had much time for hunting.

How many wild birds has this dog seen? Probably none, well some down and the pheasant preserve. But then those ain't wild...

Just like other dogs that by some young age have so many titles they don't hunt them they test them.

Looks like a nice dog though I would feed it. At least it looks like a GWP should.. Wink
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How many wild birds has this dog seen? Probably none, well some down and the pheasant preserve. But then those ain't wild...

Just like other dogs that by some young age have so many titles they don't hunt them they test them.

Looks like a nice dog though I would feed it. At least it looks like a GWP should..


There are many areas of Denmark where there are tons of small game-mainly hungarian partridge (Rebhuehner), pheasant, hare (Feldhasen) and rabbit. Good areas for water fowl too. There are no preserves that I knw of in Denmark. Since there are no limits accept for what the leaseholders may impose themselves, these dogs can see a lot of game, certainly more then our dogs see here, just because of the laws. It is not unusual for 100's of pheasant and hare to be shot on a weekend.

BTW, that's 73lb in field trial trim--dog might be bigger than you thought.
How big do you want the dog to be then-this dog is way bigger than any FT dog I've seen here. What's you point or do you just want to get off on something.

One of my favorite dogs in Germany retrieved 1600 pheasant and hare in one season. I can't tell you how many he pointed---they probably put them all out there dead for the dog to get Laughing Laughing Laughing
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ME
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
Quote:
How many wild birds has this dog seen? Probably none, well some down and the pheasant preserve. But then those ain't wild...

Just like other dogs that by some young age have so many titles they don't hunt them they test them.

Looks like a nice dog though I would feed it. At least it looks like a GWP should..


There are many areas of Denmark where there are tons of small game-mainly hungarian partridge (Rebhuehner), pheasant, hare (Feldhasen) and rabbit. Good areas for water fowl too. There are no preserves that I knw of in Denmark. Since there are no limits accept for what the leaseholders may impose themselves, these dogs can see a lot of game, certainly more then our dogs see here, just because of the laws. It is not unusual for 100's of pheasant and hare to be shot on a weekend.

BTW, that's 73lb in field trial trim--dog might be bigger than you thought.
How big do you want the dog to be then-this dog is way bigger than any FT dog I've seen here. What's you point or do you just want to get off on something.

One of my favorite dogs in Germany retrieved 1600 pheasant and hare in one season. I can't tell you how many he pointed---they probably put them all out there dead for the dog to get Laughing Laughing Laughing


Oh the fantasy.. 1600 pheasants and hare... LOL How long is the season 10 months. 73 lbs is not to big if the dog is tall then it has legs to move...

Well it is nice to know that there are birds there but has this dog seen any. We know that there are some but that is different than actually hunting them.

I know of a VC GWP that is in WI that never had a Grouse shot over it before it got its VC.. don't know about after.. Avaliablity is not the same as actually doing it...

Not bigger.. I just went and looked at my dog's old physicals and they put his wieght on there and he was 72 lbs when he was 4 yrs old. That was when he was in FT trim.. So the dog is almost a mirror in size of my dog.. SO he must be a machine.. Wink

I hope they hunt the heck out of the dog.. I hope the breedings produce the best GWP's around.. Need more good ones...
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PostPosted: 03/06/08, 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me,
Your posts reak of envy and its silly.
There are No preserves in Denmark, this dog has only seen wild game..

Maybe Jon can post photos of a typical Pheasant hunt where game is walked up, pointed & Shot in hunt parties. Its possible to shoot a few hundred in a weekend. Wild birds mind you..

There are 12 DD breeders in WI and probably over 50 DD owners. Im sure many, but not all, hunt grouse, and do so successfully. One guides & another-Vom Kennedy, is located in Park Falls & pursues mainly grouse.

66cm is 26 inches tall. 73lbs is likely Trial shape. And I stated Solid & proportioned, not "big boned."
Timo V Richtof was similar in size & why I estimated as I did. He was roaded by an ATV at 30mph over 4 miles, daily, very lean..He easily shed 7-8 lbs from his offseason weight of 80 or so pounds..

Overnight track in snow? What a novelty..
My bitchs sire was killed after taking a 2 day track over 6 miles long.
For 5 hours. He was released thinking he could jump the deer to bring it down as he had so many times before, but sadly the deer was only gut shot, got up & made it to a busy road out of hearing range..

Had a perfect VGP score, & HRC titled as well. Teamed with Timo, they were quite a pair..
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