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ME
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Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 65

PostPosted: 11/01/06, 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
ME,

You have a great need to look down on everyone-while you name dogs that your dog humiliated on a given day. I'd say this dog's biggest detriment is probably YOU. Maybe folks just got tired of genuflecting at the CC altar!!!


I find it funny how you see things Jon... You looked down your nose at my dog and I compared directly to Two dogs and lines I am sure you are familar with in which he and I had been together in the field. He had all the POP you could want he didn't humiliate them he was just shown to be better on that day.. Hey every dog has good days and bad days.. In his last 4 UT's he has a 200.5 average score 3 prize 2's and one pz 1. He is consistant if nothing else..

I made no one genuflect. When the dog was 2 I would have a crowd who would want to tag along with me and the dog at NAVHDA training day after I would work with others and their dogs, Why? because they all like to see the dog work the field, point and retrieve to hand with style. Now in doing so I stepped on my own foot and I should not have done this as we really weren't training and I was just putting birds out for the dog to give him something to do since I had spent all morning working with others and their dogs. This led to his bordom I believe and the way I tried to steady him. I have also learned that I shouldn't have given the dog every retrieve like I had done. Thus it makes steadiness easier since the dog isn't anticipating the retrieve. Live and learn but I know it now so it will be easier the next time.. Then what will your critisim be?Rolling Eyes

You are right I may the dogs weakest link but if guys like your are really interested in the breed shouldn't you over look that? Or is it not about the breed but egos? Rolling Eyes

I'll see you in ND....
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Jon
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PostPosted: 11/01/06, 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you got dragged into this because of your brother. I tend to confuse you two. The reason I'm in this is because your brother called me a liar (hell, this started out about coats and your brother got ticked off because his dogs don't have them!!).

The point in this discussion is not about the qualities of dogs but about the contentions of their owners. I DON'T look down my nose at your dog BUT, I will say that years in dogs have taught me to stay away from folks who claim to have the be-all and end-all-I bought enough snake oil in my early years. Wink It just makes no sense for anyone to contend they "set the bar" or their dog is better than so and so -- because in a room full of GWP folks you couldn't get three of them to agree on what a good coat is much less what a standard of performance is. You won't find me making claims about my dogs in relation to other dogs. I just say what they do-the good and the bad. They're just dogs-I don't need them to justify my existence. They meet my expectations because to run around and try to meet everyones else's is stupid. I don't name who I ran with, who thought I was better, excuse why my dogs fail on any given day or inflate when they are successful. If anything, every dog has to prove to me that I should feed it. Its best just to let the record speak for itself. You win some and you lose some-its the long haul that proves whether you can make any claims. 1 or 2 dogs ain't gonna do it. Besides...In the end, folks make dog choices on the trust they have in the breeder/owner-not on scores or titles


Quote:
In his last 4 UT's he has a 200.5 average score 3 prize 2's and one pz 1.


In his last 4 UT's!!! How many did he run altogether!! My last two brood bitches ran a total of three and they were all Prize 1!! Does that qualify me to make claims of some type??? Years ago, we had a GWP owner that ran 13 (!!!!) UT tests before he got a Prize 1-is that a Prize 1 dog???

Look, I'm sure Max was a hell of a dog in his day but that's not at issue here. The contentious, "my dog is best" attitude is what this is about-which I hear more from your brother. What are y'all doing for the breed besides reminding us all that our dogs are second class?

In all my years it has become clear to me that its people that get in the way when it comes to dogs. When egos take over, when my dog is better than yours, when folks reinvent to profile themselves, when white becomes the fad, when titles become more important than coat, etc., etc. - it becomes all about people not dogs and not the breed. I prefer to look for those folks that share my priorities and work with them. All the rest is just bloviating (love that word!!!). So who's working with you???
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ME
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PostPosted: 11/01/06, 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
I think you got dragged into this because of your brother. I tend to confuse you two. The reason I'm in this is because your brother called me a liar (hell, this started out about coats and your brother got ticked off because his dogs don't have them!!).

The point in this discussion is not about the qualities of dogs but about the contentions of their owners. I DON'T look down my nose at your dog BUT, I will say that years in dogs have taught me to stay away from folks who claim to have the be-all and end-all-I bought enough snake oil in my early years. Wink It just makes no sense for anyone to contend they "set the bar" or their dog is better than so and so -- because in a room full of GWP folks you couldn't get three of them to agree on what a good coat is much less what a standard of performance is. You won't find me making claims about my dogs in relation to other dogs. I just say what they do-the good and the bad. They're just dogs-I don't need them to justify my existence. They meet my expectations because to run around and try to meet everyones else's is stupid. I don't name who I ran with, who


thought I was better, excuse why my dogs fail on any given day or inflate when they are successful. If anything, every dog has to prove to me that I should feed it. Its best just to let the record speak for itself. You win some and you lose some-its the long haul that proves whether you can make any claims. 1 or 2 dogs ain't gonna do it. Besides...In the end, folks make dog choices on the trust they have in the breeder/owner-not on scores or titles


Quote:
In his last 4 UT's he has a 200.5 average score 3 prize 2's and one pz 1.


In his last 4 UT's!!! How many did he run altogether!! My last two brood bitches ran a total of three and they were all Prize 1!! Does that qualify me to make claims of some type??? Years ago, we had a GWP owner that ran 13 (!!!!) UT tests before he got a Prize 1-is that a Prize 1 dog???

Look, I'm sure Max was a hell of a dog in his day but that's not at issue here. The contentious, "my dog is best" attitude is what this is about-which I hear more from your brother. What are y'all doing for the breed besides reminding us all that our dogs are second class?

In all my years it has become clear to me that its people that get in the way when it comes to dogs. When egos take over, when my dog is better than yours, when folks reinvent to profile themselves, when white becomes the fad, when titles become more important than coat, etc., etc. - it becomes all about people not dogs and not the breed. I prefer to look for those folks that share my priorities and work with them. All the rest is just bloviating (love that word!!!). So who's working with you???



Quote:
My last two brood bitches ran a total of three and they were all Prize 1!! Does that qualify me to make claims of some type???


This goes to my point.. How many dogs had you run in a UT before them? 10 -20...

He has run in 5 UT's and one invite

You have to be a good trainer and an experienced handler and thus you can learn from you mistakes so your next dogs scores benefit.

Jon you pissed me off talking about a dog you have never seen so I said something.

No one is working with ME but I ain't all about breeding either. Plus being breeding worthy isn't what makes a great hunting dog.

Quote:
All the rest is just bloviating (love that word!!!).


O'Riellly is a liberal!!!!!


Show me where I have said my dog is the be all end all..?

He is my dog and if I have another just as good then I will be lucky..
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ChumpChanger
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PostPosted: 11/01/06, 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon, now you have done a total about face. What is it like to be a chameleon? I have given my opinions, and you know what they say about opinions. Maybe you just have a big imagination or like to tell stories. Very Happy

Just sit back and think why I named the dogs "Chump Change" to begin with....it is way too easy to bring certain types out of the woodwork, whether at a dog event, or the internet. Laughing Laughing Laughing

"Setting the standard" , " Raising the bar", "Continuing to raise the bar..."


Good stuff !!!!

It ain't bragging if you can do it!! Laughing Laughing
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Jon
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PostPosted: 11/02/06, 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're another 1 dog wonder-time will tell-I won't need to. Wink
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ChumpChanger
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PostPosted: 11/02/06, 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep Jon, and you seem to be a 7 dog flop in the last 6 years or is it 6 dog flop in 7 years?. That says a lot more to me.

As the Rolling Stones sang....."Time is on my side, yes it is....."

And the Standard is going up!!!

Now I am off to North Dakota,....you have a good day. Very Happy Very Happy


Last edited by ChumpChanger on 11/03/06, 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KJ
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PostPosted: 11/02/06, 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yep Jon, and you seem to be a 7 dog flop in the last 6 years or is it 6 dog flop in 7 years?. That says a lot more to me.


Anybody who knows what they are looking for and isn't willing to accept anything less is going to go through a lot of dogs, regardless of how good the breeding is. It is the breeders that 'make do with what they have' that I would worry about. Anybody who tells you that their dogs are so superior that every pup they keep is good enough to breed is full of sh!t and shouldn't be breeding dogs.
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katababa
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PostPosted: 11/02/06, 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sincerely hope that if someone is new to the breed, and they come and look on this site . . .they don't think everyone associated with the breed is as big of a moron as chumpy here.

seriously, please go back to the hole in wisconsin you crawled out of and stop posting on this list. you should be blacklisted as a gwp breeder, i would hope that any reputable gwp person would NEVER recommend you or your kennel.

the germans bred these dogs for work and beauty. yours are neither . ..
you seem to need to brag about them, if they stood up to the best gwps out there, those dogs would speak for themselves.


btw . . .it's standard NOT STANDARDED!
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fredgaines
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PostPosted: 11/03/06, 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I must admit that was good exercise. We have hit a all new low and got completely side tracked, now we know why we never had a hunting forum here.

To get back on topic, regarding hair loss during the hunting season when working in dense cover, I have always had good results from a little "pam", the non-stick cooking spary, and vaseline. It seems to lubricate the hair and skin and makes for a lot less friction when the dog moves through the brush. It is easily removed after the hunt with a bath.

Let's keep it friendly......please!
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ME
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PostPosted: 11/03/06, 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katababa wrote:
I sincerely hope that if someone is new to the breed, and they come and look on this site . . .they don't think everyone associated with the breed is as big of a moron as chumpy here.

seriously, please go back to the hole in wisconsin you crawled out of and stop posting on this list. you should be blacklisted as a gwp breeder, i would hope that any reputable gwp person would NEVER recommend you or your kennel.

the germans bred these dogs for work and beauty. yours are neither . ..
you seem to need to brag about them, if they stood up to the best gwps out there, those dogs would speak for themselves.


btw . . .it's standard NOT STANDARDED!


How many of these CC dogs have you seen HUNT/Work!

Blacklisted! What is he a communisit?

Holy Cow!!

I've seen enough GWPs from show breeders and AKC field events to know that they don't have a market on good coats.. Wink
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Randy Ruwe
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PostPosted: 11/10/06, 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Postman, I don't know if this will help you at all, but I just measured the hair on my five mo. old pup's feet and legs. 2" length and very tough(wiry). Due to the weather hear in the Pacific NorthWet, we have only been able to get out after grouse 2 times this year. There were a lot of hunters stranded due to rivers over crest and then snow on top of that.

He is tough though, and part of that I believe is conditioning. I walk him on coarse sharp crush rock for at least 2 miles everyday and take him to a rough field to do retrieves from a launcher for at least 7-10 retrieves a day out to 100 yds. He loves all of it. He is the first GWP I have had own me, but I did a year of research on the breed and met with 4 different breeders before selecting him.

I looked carefully at the dam and sire, and ancestors; his feet, his coat, his siblings and at his coat, especially his legs, chest and feet Exclamation

I don't think I will ever be disappointed in him, and I don't think he will ever end up with feet like Chump's pictures show. I haven't seen feet and legs that bad on a lot of soft smooth coated dogs Exclamation I wouldn't ever let my dogs get to that shape. But then again I have only been hunting for 50 of my 63 years. Randy
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Sundowner
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PostPosted: 01/25/07, 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fail to believe what I am reading here. I thought for some time that this is a forum on GWP's. What I just found out ( after flying through some of the replies ) I seem to be in the middle of some breeder's war !

ChumpChanger
Having seen the photo of, what I assume are your dog's legs and feet, I must voice doubts on your ability to keep a dog, never mind hunting with dogs. The state of the nails alone warrants to call in some animal rescue people Now, I don't know what this may be in the US of A , but over here in England you would find yourself in a court of law !!!!

IMO this is exactly the thing antis and treehuggers are looking for !!! And for this you sure as hell won't get my thanks
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Postman
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PostPosted: 03/15/07, 3:44 pm    Post subject: Sorry Reply with quote

Again, I am sorry I started this mess.
I hunted my dog weekly (2-3 times a week) from Sept. to Jan. Her feet got better and the hair is on it's way back since for the last 6 weeks we are only getting out about 1 a week.
Thanks for the "pam" suggestion. I'll try it next fall.
Tom
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 02/28/08, 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beat dead horse..

There are 4 VDD Drahts that are HRC titled dogs, mine one of them. THis line of Drat, is actually Overrepresented in HRC in the breed, only 7-8 GWP/DDs have titled to date. Funny though, The breeder even though he took all through VGP (German Utility) tests & titled in HRC & certified them in 20hr tracking, never bragged of "Setting the standard".

(Theres also a 500+ HRC Point JGHV Deutsch Kurzhaar-a Multiple titled Vom Riverwoods dog, that has 5xs as many points as your/our dog(s) & he can smoke many better Labs in HRC.)

HRC in No way defines water or cripple search, its a Retreiving test, period. It is a fun Trained test, to run doubles, triples, blinds & handling test. Any stable, driven, cooperative, versatile dog with sense can title with good training. We do it for fun. Nothing else. I enjoy HRC in the offseason & it helps us in the duck blinds. I also like the faces of the Lab guys when my dog runs. My training partners are good hunt buddies also.

Interesting note, years back, the SD OPEN Pheasant Championship was won by a VDD German import..Timo V Richtof. (Jon may know of him) Hegewald winner, expensive import.
The Last dog to run that day, 3 long tails had no finds, before him. He ended up winning the entire state tourney, producing many birds. THis was many moons ago, grand sire to my pup.

Chump-Id like to know what Hegewald dog Winner ran in the WI Navhda test. Im not aware of any German import winner being showcased, studded or otherwise in WI, sounds like another misstatement. The water tests are very strenuous & thorough in Germany. I can probably produce pictures of the water grounds if you'd like..

I agree the "Setting the Standard" kennel motto is not just an overstatement. But a Canard & False Advertising .

Youre not even A Breed warden & certainly not the designer of a breed created 100 years ago, by strict standards, & still being applied in some groups,... but merely a benefactor of such.
"Setting the standard" is the maybe best laugh Ive had all day.

Repeat after me,... its not about the people, its about the dogs..No place for narcissim & bulging egos.
Ill define Narcism for you.

"The Narcissist feels the need to have a lot of attention, adulation, admiration or subservience from others.
The narcissist is preoccupied with himself/herself, his/her preferences, needs and aspirations and with his/her fantasies of unlimited success.
The narcissist is devoid of empathy.
The narcissist is inclined to lie or deceive.
The narcissist often criticises others, sometimes to the extent of damaging their reputation.
The narcissist often behaves very differently in public situations from private situations (i.e. his or her public persona is very different from his or her private persona).
The public persona is typically very charming (perhaps designed to generate admiration) while the private persona can appear to be quite aggressive."
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ME
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PostPosted: 03/03/08, 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are 4 VDD Drahts that are HRC titled dogs, mine one of them.


What title? Seasoned?

Quote:
(Theres also a 500+ HRC Point JGHV Deutsch Kurzhaar-a Multiple titled Vom Riverwoods dog, that has 5xs as many points as your/our dog(s) & he can smoke many better Labs in HRC.)

And your point is? So they spent the money.. Once you teach your dog what it needs to know it is just about putting up the money and continuing the training. ALL dogs will loose what they learned if you don't continue to train regularly.

Quote:
HRC in No way defines water or cripple search, its a Retreiving test, period.


Never said it did nor would I.

Quote:
It is a fun Trained test, to run doubles, triples, blinds & handling test. Any stable, driven, cooperative, versatile dog with sense can title with good training.


Completely agree but I would add that the dog has to have the ability to mark.. Some dogs just can't seem to do that..

Quote:
Interesting note, years back, the SD OPEN Pheasant Championship was won by a VDD German import..Timo V Richtof. (Jon may know of him) Hegewald winner, expensive import.
The Last dog to run that day, 3 long tails had no finds, before him. He ended up winning the entire state tourney, producing many birds. THis was many moons ago, grand sire to my pup.


Now you are bragging about a run and gun event that the dogs don't even need to really point or retrieve at to win since it is all about time. You are all over the place.

I entered a few of these with my GWP. Some guys that I didn't even know were there and a few years later they saw me and my dog at a NAVHDA event and said they remembered our run. Dog was the only one there who was steady all the way through the fall and retrieved all the way to hand. Dog made 2 150 yard plus retrieves on birds. The judge was a lab man who had judged AKC in the past and he said "It was worth following all these dogs around all day just to see those 2 retrieves". I only shot once at each of the birds since in that game shells count as points. I knew I hit them and that they would be falling from the sky soon enough. When I looked at the dog he was steady and just watching the birds fly. When they fell from the sky I sent him. Brought the birds right to my hand.
If they would actually have to retrieve to hand in those events we would have taken 1st that day. I knew then that these events weren't for me.


Quote:
Chump-Id like to know what Hegewald dog Winner ran in the WI Navhda test. Im not aware of any German import winner being showcased, studded or otherwise in WI, sounds like another misstatement. The water tests are very strenuous & thorough in Germany. I can probably produce pictures of the water grounds if you'd like..


I ran the same day as a dog that was the Highest placing USA dog ever in Germany. We both hit the same water for the first time. My dog did everything that that dog did in the water and it returned when I called it to return and the DD didn't the handler had to go get it.
Quote:

I agree the "Setting the Standard" kennel motto is not just an overstatement. But a Canard & False Advertising .


How could you know this?

Quote:
Youre not even A Breed warden & certainly not the designer of a breed created 100 years ago, by strict standards, & still being applied in some groups,... but merely a benefactor of such.
"Setting the standard" is the maybe best laugh Ive had all day.


I don't think my brother ever wanted to be a breed warden.. Never claimed to be the designer.. He just has dogs that WILL hunt don't need to fry them to get them to do duck search. He will agree that the DD is a nice dog and if he didn't have to deal with a bunch of look down your nose types he would have one.
The standard has not been lowered.

Quote:
Repeat after me,... its not about the people, its about the dogs..No place for narcissim & bulging egos.
Ill define Narcism for you.


Which is why he is no longer in NAVHDA or any group cause you talk a good game that it is about the dogs but it isn't which is why you are hear bragging about your dog.. It is people who bred these dogs and they did it to have a good dog and to talk about what they did. Get a clue.

Quote:
The narcissist often criticises others, sometimes to the extent of damaging their reputation.
The narcissist often behaves very differently in public situations from private situations (i.e. his or her public persona is very different from his or her private persona).
The public persona is typically very charming (perhaps designed to generate admiration) while the private persona can appear to be quite aggressive."


Now this is the best laugh I have had in a while thanks Laughing

So then since his public persona is not typically charming but those who have met him like him what does this make of your diagnosis?

Have fun with your dog and if you shot as many as he did this year with his dog I know you did. Rolling Eyes
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