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Gun shy ness
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jbgerot
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Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 10/04/06, 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChumpChanger wrote:
There is no problem with "dogs not hunting"...that is what we breed...gundogs. A dog that was a reject would be replaced, and the reject would be destroyed. It is a hardball world. The GWP isn't meant to lay on the sofa and eat bon-bons.

Problems with dogs field preformance can be traced to stupid owners 99% of the time, and their lack of listening skills to ME, and getting bad training advice from "gamer types". You don't get a new dog because you are a bad trainer. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Yes ChumpChanger, in fact, I believe we have had a few of your "disposable" gwps in our rescue program, you SHOULD be happy to know that they have all found WONDERFUL non-hunting homes instead of being returned to you to be "destroyed" as you call it. One of which I had the pleasure of fostering, she wasn't a hunter but found a wonderful and very active home where she can be loved and accepted as a companion pet.
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kiwigwp
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PostPosted: 10/04/06, 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I haven't posted to this board before but having read Mary and Nikki's posts I have felt the need....
I back you both 110%
Well said on all points
A four month old pup is still developing, getting to know its surroundings and new family....desensitization can take many forms not just gunshot. Time and patience will see the biggest rewards ALWAYS!!!!
As for "getting rid" of a pup...I can only hope you mean rehoming - although giving up on one so young seems rather hard and callous.
I am rather proud of the fact that all my pups are in loving homes (those hunting and those that are sled dogs and pets) and that I have always (and will always) take back any of my pups at any age.

If you breed - rehome
If you don't rehome - don't breed
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If you Breed, Rehome. If you don't Rehome, don't Breed.

Rae Bank
Hotwyr German Wirehaired Pointers
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Jay-Mar's GWP's
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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Location: Arcadia, CA

PostPosted: 10/04/06, 3:43 pm    Post subject: firing over a pup Reply with quote

cjs180 wrote:
I have to agree with Jon and Chump on this one. I would myself keep the dog, but would start over with a different dog from a different line. Try some of the ideas mentioned ealier in the thread. The breeder of that dog should have fired guns over the pups before any of them go home, yes I said fired shots over the pups, from a distane of course. This means in the 1st 49 days before they go home. A good breeder that is raising hunting dogs and not show dogs should do this. Most will have the pups socialized to some degree and have them introduced to water, riding in a car, etc.

Chris


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do not know of any breeder that fires over pups especially when they are that young. Yes, socializing them to noises and people and new environments is very important, giving them the ability to handle stress and new experiences and such is a good thing but subjecting them to things that are more then they are able to cope with for their developmental age can be devastating. There is imprinting that can be done at an early age but firing a gun would not be one I would suggest. Banging pans, maybe a pop gun somewhere in the distnce, putting them on wings or pigeons with the flight feathers pulled, letting them be near an area where other dogs are hunting and they can experience the excitment without pressure...sure those things should be done. So should leash breaking, crate training, and some form of housebreaking. But shooting over a pup...I will dare to ask if any breeder I respect does that
Nikki
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ChumpChanger
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PostPosted: 10/05/06, 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
.....Banging pans, maybe ......


You know I have never understood that one. If I were to bang pans around any of my two dogs they would head out of the room........I just don't see banging pans loudly as really having anything to to do with acclimating a pup to gunfire. I just don't see it..... Confused
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cjs180
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PostPosted: 10/05/06, 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know many breeders who will fire a blank .22 pistol in the distance when the pups are young. I wrote that wrong in my last post, don't fire directly over the pups. This is a big help in introducing gun fire to a dog. A breeder that strictly sells hunting dogs should be doing these kinds of things.

Chris
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ChumpChanger
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PostPosted: 10/05/06, 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would disagree with that.....you don't need to be firing blanks over less than seven week old pups....you are accomplishing nothing. It is the new owner of the pups responsibility to PROPERLY introduce the pup to gunfire. Everybody wants to blame the breeder for everything. Whether it be gun shyness or a bad temperament. The breeder doesn't see the dog for 3-4 years, hear anything back from the buyer....the buyer follows no instruction on how to do any training, listens to his buddies or an old uncle.......screws up the pup, then wants to pin the problem on the breeder. Healthy, happy puppies with potential is all a breeder can guarantee...the rest is up to the new owners.....

My other favorite is owners who take a pup to a shooting range. Heck I can not stand the sound of gunfire after 10 minutes at the rifle range....why would you introduce a pup that way. It is just asking for trouble. Confused Confused
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Jon
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PostPosted: 10/26/06, 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to give Chump some credit here (and he aggravates me sometimes too) - Why is the breeder responsible for everything that a pup becomes? I also believe that you don't get a guarantee with a pup beyond physical soundness issues (HD, OCD, thyroid, etc.).

I'd like to hear folks comment on what risk the buyer should assume.
Anyone who knows me knows that I have bought dogs back, destroyed unsound dogs, and made every effort to assist owners but, GEEZ, folks-doesn't the buyer have any risk to assume here?

Practically all the problems I see with dogs in all organizations is poor handling and training by owners. Why is it that some folks just train one winner after another no matter where it comes from and others can't get a dog in the kennel without a fight.

I too detect far too much "humanization" of dogs on this list and it only gets you in trouble. Sometimes I think we all would be better off if we bred cows-there might be less emotional decision and more objective pragmatism.

The real problem isn't that most dogs are imperfect-with good training most of these will become useful and enjoyable hunting companions or house pets. The problem ocurrs when we breed such dogs. The real test of any breed is the strength of the genepool and you don't improve that by breeding mediocrity.
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