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Coat-King by Mars- Grooming/Stripping???
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Tony
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PostPosted: 03/26/03, 10:33 am    Post subject: Coat-King by Mars- Grooming/Stripping??? Reply with quote



I've heard that the Coat-King by Mars does a good job of stripping a wirehairs coat, but I'm not sure which blade to get. Most of my wirehairs are easy to groom with a rubber curry brush and a stripping knife, but the fuzzy monster pictured above is another story. Her coat is long and fairly soft and she hates to be stripped. I'm not sure whether it is because she is a big baby, or because of her skin is more sensitive.

Which blade would you recommend for this fuzzy coat, and which blade would you recommend for a good wirehair coat?
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Rollick
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PostPosted: 03/26/03, 3:40 pm    Post subject: stripping blade Reply with quote

Hello, Tony,
My boy has the same softish coat and is, if anything, longer-haired and fuzzier than the Wookie in your posted photo--he's also my first GWP and I don't know anyone else near me who owns one, so I don't have anything to "compare" him to, as it were. And when I look at photos in magazines and on the web, there seems to be a huge variation in coats. So my question to you--or anyone--is: when you strip a dog as fuzzy as mine (yours), just how much do you strip off? How do you know when enough is enough?
I apologize for responding to a question with a question--I don't have an answer for you re that blade, sorry. Thanks.
Cheers, Rollick
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Tony
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PostPosted: 03/27/03, 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rollick,

I usually strip everything that will pull out easily. When the dogs coat looks neat and lays flat, then you are done. Since you're not going to a dog show, you only have to strip as much as you want, some people don't even bother. Most of the time I just pull it out with my finger and thumb, but this time of year I get out the tools.

You will be amazed at the pile of hair you will have when you are done.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 03/27/03, 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The picture that was posted covers up 50% of the "text" so I can't read what is written, well, not all of it anyway.

Anyone have any idea why? Or how I fix it?

thanks
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admin
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PostPosted: 03/27/03, 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

might be your screen resolution.. what do you have it set at?
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oacona
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PostPosted: 04/04/03, 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same question with a question reply. My boy also has hair longer and softer and curlier than this Wookie (I love that reference to these big nosed fluffs ). Stripping just hasn't fully prevented the dredlocks that inevitably form. Last year, we had to break down and shave Kona. We understand that it further softens the wire coat. If we resort to shaving him again, will it get softer each time, and then worsen the problem?
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Tony
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PostPosted: 04/04/03, 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oacona,

I don't see how you could soften a GWP coat by shaving it, but then again, I've never shaved one before.

I think that I'm going to order a 20-tooth Mars Coat-King to see how it works. I'll post a review after I've used it a few times.
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cheerio
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PostPosted: 04/05/03, 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had that problem with my girl too. A very good friend of mine, a Bouviers breeder gave me a tric: ad a few drop of dish soap to the shampoo, and it does soften the coat. It takes a few regular wash at first.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 04/06/03, 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaving a wire coat will soften the coat... let's see how do I explain this....]
Every Wirecoated dog has an undercoat of softer hairs, some have a lot of soft undercoat, some less, but they all have, or should have an undercoat.

When you shave the coat, you are essentially cutting off the harsher outer guard hairs, along with the undercoat. But by taking off the outer guard hairs (which are probably dead hairs) you are allowi ng the undercoat to show, and because sometimes this undercoat grows quicker,,,,,, it will become longer than the outer guard hairs. And becuase you did not remove, just shorten, the guard hairs, they will not grow back as they should.

Shaving any breed will usually also change the color. A nice dark liver will end up a lighter "brown " color, even black dogs that are shaved will end up silver or gray because what you are seeing is the undercoat, and not the guard hairs.Most undercoats are a lighter color than the outer guard hairs.

Look at a "shaved" Schnauzer vs a stripped "show" Schnauzer... one is a light silver, the other salt and pepper... with very noticeable harsh outer coat. Or look at at any "show" terrier vs a pet terrier. The pets are ususally shaved, the show stripped... the color and texture of the coats are very different.

Stripping a wire coat can be work, good coats should need minimal work to be effective, poorer coats can be made better with consistent stripping, and then some no matter what you do will always be a horrible coat. The really horrible coated dogs may be just easier to keep with a clipper.

Make sense?
Bernee Brawn
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Keith
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PostPosted: 04/08/03, 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is all true. I have shown wirecoated dogs before. You have to strip the coats. If you clip them it does soften the coat and washes out the color. A proper GWP coat does not require very much care. It is when the coat has been bred to long that the trouble begins. In other wirecoated dogs the coat was bred less wiry and to long to lengthen the furnishings for show. Not what a proper wire coat should be.
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oacona
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PostPosted: 04/08/03, 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, yes it makes sense. I will try the stripping brush coupled with very intensive hand stripping and see if we can prevent the need to shave him again. Last year, the burrs and brush just after hunting season got the best of him. He has a fairly harsh outer coat, but the undercoat is very thick. Both just grow pretty long, and dredlocks are a big problem. We don't care if he is bald or turns purple, he is the most wonderful pet and friend and hunting dog we've ever known. (smile smile) What a nose on our funny mess! Thanks for your help.
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Dave
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PostPosted: 04/09/03, 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dualgwp, would consider the coat on the GWP in the link below to be "blown?"

http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?p=58306#58306
(you might have to scroll up after you open the link)

This good looking dog is not mine, but my GWP's coat did look fairly similar to this ones before I hand stripped it. Now it looks better in my opinion.

Good discussion here. I've learned a lot about GWP coat care thanks to you all.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 04/10/03, 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, what a nice boy! He has a nice harsh head coat and looks to have good texture to the coat. From the picture the coat does not look "blown" to me, just thick and maybe a bit long.

It's difficult to look at a photo, especially when it's just a part of the dog to really tell. I would guess, and it's just a guess, that you could start pulling that coat now to keep it from getting to that dead "blown" stage. If you pull some now, some a couple of weeks down the road and then more later, you will always have a nice new harsh coat coming in. Once you let the entire coat die, then you have a major job on your hands to get rid of it all and you have to start all over again. Been there, done that with older dogs, or when I've gotten busy or just plain lazy and always regret it. Just keep it on somekind of schedule and you and your dog will both be happier.

By the way, just used my first Mars Coat King yesterday. It is certainly a wonder tool! Takes a ton of coat out with very little work for the groomer and very little stress on the dog. No pulling, no tugging. Seems to be a great tool for the Wire coat. However, I can't figure out if the tool is actually "pulling" the coat or is "cutting" the coat. It appears that some of the coat coming out is the entire hair, but I am seeing some little hairs falling out as well and these seem to be cut. Cut is bad, pull is good!

Anyone use one to maintain a show coat? What do you think? Recomend it or not?
Bernee Brawn
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Dave
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PostPosted: 04/10/03, 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dualgwp,

If you get a chance, could you post a picture of a coat that is blown, or just needs stripping?

I did strip my 1 year old the other day. He was getting fairly shaggy and the hair seemed to come out easily without the dog minding at all. I was careful not to overdo anything, but the coat is now more of a tight lying, layered coat. It looks more like many of the GWP's I see in Pinkerton's book. I hope I didn't overdo anything.

I'll try to post a picture in the near future.

Just a thought. This site would be a great resource hold create an archive of specific information, including before-and-after pictures, of the stripping process, etc. I'd be happy to help out.
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Dorsey
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PostPosted: 04/11/03, 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand something about the different length coats. I've seen photos of show dogs that look great but is that really the coat they were born with? If someone is stripping the coat down every few weeks or even once a month how would you know if the coat wasn't really three inches long?

Couldn't a blown coat be confused with a long poor quality coat?
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