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controlling my dogs range
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birddog
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PostPosted: 12/12/04, 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read many times that a dogs nose is superior but never the ears? I would venture to guess the dog is on come back because of the nick, not the toot.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 12/12/04, 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="omar"]That is what I said....isn't it? The nick will get the dog's attention at a great distance. Many dogs will get a snoot full of scent or get distracted by something....but don't think for a minute the dog isn't hearing you, especially if you have a whistle. The dog just has a different agenda than "coming in" at the moment. :D[/quote]

I am sorry to dissagree with you and the use of the whistle for this range senerio but if it is the "nick" that gets the dogs attention and brings them around as I have stated, and your above post just repeats what I have said and seems to agree with me, why bother with the toot? If the dog has a different agenda than coming at the moment, and I will go one step further by saying they may be out of hearing range, the toot of a whistle serves no purpose here. The "nick" is enough to bring the dog around. Some e-collar's can reach over a mile. Unless you are using a bull horn as a whistle I would save my breath. JMO
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birddog
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PostPosted: 12/13/04, 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are getting so far off the subject of helping oldsoul and I believe trying to turn this into a debate of whistles versus actual help to solve his problem that I think in order to help we need to get back to the issue of training. Oldsoul, my opinion would be to use the e-collar to controll your dogs range. If you desire to incorporate the whistle even though I feel for the range you describe would be futile, by all means do so. Any training add can be useful if used correctly.
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Jodi Quesnell
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PostPosted: 12/13/04, 5:38 pm    Post subject: ranging too far Reply with quote

Someone mentioned this earlier, but I think that you sould keep this in mind--If you can't see what your dog is doing I would NOT recommend giving him a "nick." He could be on point, doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing. If you give him a correction, he may stop pointing, or worse yet, start "blinking" birds.

One of our dogs ranges extremely far, but he will check in periodically. If we don't see him for 10 min or more, we can be pretty sure he is on point somewhere...we just have to find where! We use a tracking collar now, but we used to use a beeper collar, and the sound of the beeper travels pretty far.

Just because a dog has a big range doesn't mean he is self-hunting. And, just because he doesn't come back when you call, doesn't mean he is being bad--he could be on point.

just my 2-cent's worth.

Bye
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oldsoul
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PostPosted: 12/17/04, 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, a lot of suggestions and a bit of a dispute. Thank you all for weighing in on this subject. I'm happy to report that things have gotten better. I have since done some training with a check cord at the nearby soccer field. I let her get out from me a ways and then blow a single blast on a whistle. The blast is intended to get her attention and look to me for commands/directions. If she obeys, I merely head to the right or left and she heads that way as well. If she doesn't obey, I give a tug and lead her that way until she goes the desired direction on her own. This has made a vast improvement and she now responds without the cord. It only took 2-3, 15 minute sessions to get it across to her. Once again, I realize that she is still a puppy and learning about this hunting thing all the time. While we out hunting, I let her do her thing as long as I can keep a fairly constant eye on her. This provides me an opportunity to oversee her development and make the most of any opportunites that might present themselves. She is my first GWP and I absolutely love her.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 12/18/04, 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great! She'll try you from time to time, but as long as you are consistent and continue to teach her what is expected... you'll have a great friend for lots of years to come.

Wires can be knot heads, but for the most part I think they truly want to try to do what we ask of them. Have fun with her!
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Vom Britt
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PostPosted: 12/19/04, 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the posts above have mentioned nicking a dog to control his range. Most of these folks IMO, use the e-collar for come/ hear only. All of my dogs are e-collar conditioned, for whatever hunting and training situation arises, from trash breaking to holding point to smart fetch. Some say not to use the e-collar on a dog out of sight because they may be on point. I say, it is how you apply the burn and if they are conditioned to a burn when on point. My dogs are conditioned to low level burns/nicks when they are on point. To me, and them it is a whoa reminder when they are on point. All of the friends that I hunt with use beeper collars, so for us it is pretty much cut and dried when they are blowing us off on the verbal or whistled come/here. My solution, continious burning at whatever level it takes to turn them. Again, the dog, IMO, should to be e-collar conditioned in yard and field training, and at times vocalized levels. Never vocalize!! when they are on point. Just trying to make myself clear, but I firmly believe dogs need higher level, conditioned training burns, for the time when I trash break them off of deer, porkies, skunks,etc. I know folks who have shocked their dogs at the highest levels, only to have the dog run off because they did not know what hit them or what is was for. For me the e-collar is a tool to reinforce learned commands through traditional methods, not a tool to teach or fear.

Bob
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Vom Britt
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PostPosted: 12/19/04, 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Soul,

If you are going to plant training birds for your dog, plant them at a distance you feel comfortable with. I prefer my dogs to hunt between 60 & 100 yds. and usually plant between those distances. The good ones will pick up on this but will extend their range if they are not getting into birds. Trailers don't care for dogs that yo-yo. But, from a hunter from WI. I like mine to check back on me after casting.

Have fun,
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Vom Britt
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PostPosted: 12/26/04, 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omar,

Have you ever heard of the three bird puppy line? And, how it is used by pros and ameatures alike, to develope range?
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KYSER
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PostPosted: 12/27/04, 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omar
Your hunting situations and enviroment may allow your dogs to have a big range but some of us have to SHARE public land with other hunters and big running dogs getting into other's paths are not very welcome. What this posters dog seems to be saying is "if you want to hunt follow me." What birddog is saying is to hide on puppies to cause a sense of almost panic and teach them to check in to keep from getting lost, nothing to do with come command. I took the advise of some of the let em run when a puppy to get good and bold then try to put manners on them. All that got me was a big runner and bad habbits to brake him of.
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LuckyDawgs
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PostPosted: 12/27/04, 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 2 wirehairs that were rescues. The first one is a 2-year old female and the second one was a 1-year old male. This is the second hunting season for the female and the first for the male. Due to health problems, I was only able to hunt the female twice last year. I adopted the male in July. This is the first "real" hunting season for both dogs. Since I adopted both dogs as adults and not puppies, I was at a disadvantage at not being able to have complete control of establishing good habits. Thus, I have had to adopt a method that would fit my situation. I mainly hunt pheasants on small parcels of public land (80-160 acres). This type of hunting warrants that the dogs work fairly close and stay on the area, otherwise, there is a good chance for the dogs to chase running/flying roosters out onto the road and get hit by a car. Thus, for this first year, I run my dogs separately and on a 100-foot checkcord. They both are doing a great job at staying within shooting range and on the area I am allowed to hunt. The checkcord does not seem to prohibit the dogs from doing their thing. Initially, the male wanted to just chase and birds would run and flush wild. However, as the season has gone on, he is adapting well and it seems that by keeping him in check, the birds are holding and he is able to hold point at least 60% of the time. The female has never stretched the 100-foot cord, except to chase after a crippled bird. She always works close. Since I have been a Lab owner for the better part of 30 years, I am use to close working dogs. I do not have a problem training my wirehairs to work close because I am more interested in rescueing the wirehairs and giving them a good life that includes hunting than to see these beautiful dogs be euthanized because somebody did not want them any longer. This post is not to criticize what others have said. It is only expresses another way of training a dog to stay within range.
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oldsoul
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PostPosted: 12/29/04, 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omar, what's with the "rolling eyes" and "confused" faces on your posts?
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 12/29/04, 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyDog, thanks for giving a couple of dogs another chance in life.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 12/29/04, 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="omar"]What is the matter, don't you like smiley faces? :cry: :? ......

Here is why I use icons.....to make a point.....this statement by KYSER...... :roll:

"......What this posters dog seems to be saying is "if you want to hunt follow me." What birddog is saying is to hide on puppies to cause a sense of almost panic and teach them to check in to keep from getting lost, nothing to do with come command...."

Which is totally absurd.... :wink: Just because you hide on a pup, and it comes back to look for you, that is still not controling the dog's range, nor will it ever be effective as a means to conrol a dog's range. It only serves to help reinforce the dog/hunter team bond. That is a good thing...... But it will not contol a dog's range in hunting.....especially once the dog matures and gets fired up about birds and searching them out!!! :roll: :roll: It is absurd......[/quote]

It is not a case of liking smiley faces but its the tone and inference of how they are being used. There seem to be 3 posters who's tone and use of icons on this board are very similar. Could it be those 3 persons are one of the same. Same person using different email addresses and different usernames? If one looks back at certain post's you can pick up how close their negitive tone resemble each other. It is easy to be negitive when one can hide behind a username. I believe our readers are getting wise to what is going on. ... It will be interesting to see what icons will be used on the negitive reply which will be personnal generated towards me because I am calling then out.

If you are so positive of all you seem to want people to believe, and so sure we others don't know what we are talking about, how about putting your real name in writing? In some cases such as yours, it is hard to respect the words and opinions of a phanton writer especially when they are out to cause friction for some.

Janet
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Fuz
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PostPosted: 12/29/04, 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that anybody that adopts adult GWP's with all the hidden 'baggage' included deserves an atta -boy! You have obviously taken a lot of time to find the right training methods that work for your dogs. Doesnt mean they will work for everybody- but who knows - somebody else might benefit from your techniques. Persistent negativity with some of the posters sends up red flags to me- its either somebody with 'issues' or who thinks its their way or the highway or - and all of us know this type- the kind of person that just likes to stir the pot and is always right.... I find it just as easy to skim over or past them and get to the replys that share ideas and methods and do it in a respectful way...I urge you all to do the same.
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