German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America

Roundtuitfarms · Posted: 09/08/04, 9:02 am Post subject: Info on Panostitis

I have a 5 month old 60 lb female that was just diagnosed with Panostitis. I am interested in information on this condition and any first-hand experience members may have.

Based on info from the vet, Panostitis (growing pains in the joints) is a condition of large, fast growing breeds. I've gathered some limited info on the web, but not as much as I'd like.

Any help appreciated. Thanks

Joe

trackindog · Posted: 09/08/04, 12:05 pm Post subject:

Joe - a couple of topics down is one titled "panostetis" or something like that. Check this out as it apppears to be the same problem you are having.

Sorry I can't help you out anymore.

Ann

AmmoMike · Posted: 09/08/04, 3:37 pm Post subject: we had this too

We had this same problem with our GWP when she was young too. She is now 13 months and doing much better. SHe had a round of antibiotics and we gave her a baby aspirin 2 x a day byu our vets order. She seemed to be in pain for a few days and she got better. Our vet also suggested he did not tell us but suggested that we try mixing half adult food with half puppy food it might slow the growth we did this and she loved it. I do not know if it helped but we have not had any other problems with this.

Denise
_________________
Mike

Roundtuitfarms · Posted: 09/08/04, 3:49 pm Post subject:

Thanks, I didn't see the reference a few lines below--I did a quick search of the site, but the spelling was different so it didn't register. I'll be switching to adult food as soon as this bag of puppy chow is finished.

Thanks again.

Eric · Junior Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 32 Location: Ontario

My 6 month old pup has just been diagnosed with H.O.D.
(hypertrophic osteodystrophy). If you do some checking on the web you will see that the symptoms are very similar to Panosteitis.

One thing they suggest that may cause this condition is a diet that is too rich. My boy had been on Eukanuba large breed puppy as was recommended but I have since changed him over to the adult formula.

The speed in which the symptoms of HOD occur are truely alarming. My once happy go lucky pup suddenly was in extreme pain, refused to eat and would snap to the point where he had to be muzzled to be taken to the vet. It was extremely stressful and a tremendous worry. Unfortunately it looks like his front legs have been permanently bowed by the disease.

I would recommend you do what ever you can to prevent your pup going through this. It is a nightmare! At the very least, feed only the best food and make sure it is a 'large breed' formula. Finally, be very very careful about the shots that are given by your vet.

Roundtuitfarms · Posted: 09/10/04, 10:33 am Post subject:

I feed the Euk large beed puppy chow, but will be switching to the adult formula. What is your point about the vet's shots. Linking vaccination to disease?

Walter & Claudia · Posted: 09/10/04, 11:47 am Post subject:

I would also switch your puppy from a chicken based diet to a lamb and rice based diet since it containes less proteins.
The board has a couple of great postings regarding food but I just couldn't find them. Maybe somebody else knows where those listings are.

Hope this helps.
Claudia

Eric · Junior Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 32 Location: Ontario

I only suggest caution on the vaccines because from what I have read they may contribute to HOD.

My pup was orginally diagnosed with immune mediated polyarthritis which is similar to HOD. This condition is suspected to being linked with vaccines.

Roundtuitfarms · Posted: 09/13/04, 9:00 pm Post subject:

I'm sensitive to the problem of vaccine-induced auto-immune problems because I have a blue heeler that developed this problem at about 1 1/2 years of age. Problem is, certain vaccinations are required, and others are just good managment. Sort of a no-brainer risk analysis until you have a dog become an invalid as a result of a vaccine response.

cheerio · Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2003 Posts: 285 Location: Canada

You are quite right, autoimmune diseases have been link to vaccinations. However, one must understand the way vaccinations work before assuming that a vaccine may cause an autoimmune problem.
First, no vaccine can give the disease it is aimed at protecting the dog against. A vaccine is now in most cases a modified live virus. Buy inserting it into the dog, it could only give what it is, a modify virus, and therefore could not give the virus itself. This is why although some dogs may react to a vaccine, they will not react by suffering from the virus itself. Nor is it true, and for the same reason, that a vaccinated dog can shed the virus and pass it on to a non vaccinate dog.
Secondly, no vaccine on its own can bring an autoimmune disease. Over vaccination can. So to make it simple, it is not the type of vaccine which creates the problem but the number of vaccines. All veterinary schools teach their students (please feel free to check it) that a dog should be vaccinated every 3 to 4 years. Vets however continue to vaccinate every year because it is a sure way to ensure people will bring their dogs for a yearly medical visit (and I hope not for easy money). There is the problems. We don't get vaccinated every year and dogs and cats should not either.
Modified live vaccines in order to be effective against a specific virus is aimed at forming reactive cells which will recognise as a danger anything that resembles the modify virus. In short, it is broad spectrum. By constant vaccination, the body creates more and more of these defensive cells, which becomes wider and wider in their spectrum and eventually learn to recognise as a danger normal cells. Depending on the type of normal cells it chooses to attack, the dog will suffer different types of autoimmune problems, with one of the most commun becoming Immune-Mediated-Hemolytic Anemia, causing the destruction of red cells.

So to answer your question: Don't hesitate to vaccinate your dog against all known likely diseases such as Distemper, Hepatetis, Leptospirosis, Parvo virus, ParaInfluenza, Coronovirus, Giardia (Give leptospirosis only if needed in the area where you live and always avoid administrating it together with Parvovirus). But do not vaccinate your dog more often than necessary, that is 3 times in his life time after the initial set of vaccines in puppies (with 3 to 4 vaccines from 6 or 8 weeks of age to 6 months), at 2, 5 and 8. Passed 8, your dog no longer needs vaccinations.

Eric · Junior Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 32 Location: Ontario

Good information Cheerio - thanks.

Just to add to this, I understand it is better to have your vet break up the vaccinations so as not to bombard your pup with 5 or 6 different vaccines all in the one 'cocktail'.

Also, a friend who is involved in vet medicine said that there has been a dramatic increase of Lepto in Ontario in the past few years which is why vets in this area are being advised to vaccine for it, have you heard anything about this?

maddog · Posted: 09/15/04, 5:18 pm Post subject:

15 years plus ago till now, we had dogs that were having reactions to vaccines. Many of the dogs that were having the reactions were revacinated on schedule, but without the lepto. Check the strain of lepto they are vaccinationg for and the strain prominent in your area. Chances are they aren't the same and the vaccine won't do you any good for lepto.

Steve

cheerio · Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2003 Posts: 285 Location: Canada

Yes, I have heard, and Ontario is not the only area affected.
It is always the same problem... Dogs were systematically vaccinated and the disease seems to have vanished. Because Lepto vaccine is the one who is known to have given the most often and the most serious reactions in dogs, many decided to not vaccinate against Lepto any more. After all, there was no incidence of Lepto anymore!... Well, the dogs were not vaccinated and guess what...Lepto came back!

You should definitely discuss the possible side effects of the Lepto vaccine with your vet, and whether or not, as Maddog has mentioned, the vaccine specifically targets the strend of Lepto around. Viruses tend to evolve over time...