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GWP or Griffon?
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windy092
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PostPosted: 02/22/04, 7:08 am    Post subject: GWP or Griffon? Reply with quote

What is the difference between a GWP and a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon? They look exactly alike.
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ME
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PostPosted: 02/22/04, 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your going to insult my dog I'm not going to tell you Evil or Very Mad
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windy092
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PostPosted: 02/22/04, 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly don't mean to insult your (or my) GWP.....it's just that after I was asked that question I looked up Wirehaired Pointing Griffons and found some that looked just like my GWP! Shocked

http://www.2000dogs.com/breeds/wirehairedpoint.htm

Not all of them do, but some of them are spitting images of GWPs! Are they related somehow? Kissing cousins, maybe? Wink
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Tony
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PostPosted: 02/22/04, 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The griffon is one of the breeds that was used to develop the GWP. Most WPG have more hair than the GWP and the shape of their head is different.
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Keith
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PostPosted: 02/23/04, 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if the griffon I saw was representative of the breed but I think they are a lot more easy going and slower and closer working. But you can't judge a breed by one dog. I have read the same thing. They also tend to have longer coats.
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windy092
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PostPosted: 02/23/04, 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your help. I did find this on the AKC page:

"Most of the early wirehaired Pointers represented a combination of Griffon, Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, and German Shorthair. The Pudelpointer was a cross between a Poodle dog and an English Pointer bitch, while the Griffon and the Stichelhaar were composed of Pointer, Foxhound, Pudelpointer, and a Polish Water dog. Thus it is easy to appreciate the different hunting skills incorporated in the wirehaired Pointers of a century or more ago."

Goes to show you....you can learn something new every day. Yesterday I didn't even know what a Stichelhaar was! I haven't looked up Pudelpointer yet. Maybe I'll save that for tomorrow. Wink

Polish Water Dog? (Wednesday's project.)
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Deb Finstad
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PostPosted: 02/24/04, 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stichelhaar's are very rare dogs now days & it can be hard to find any info on them however, about a month ago on the Upland Journal web site a gentlemen posted a few recent pictures. It you want to see what they look like go to:

www.uplandjournal.com

Then select the 'Bird dogs & Hunting' forum, scroll to the bottom of the first page of posts and select page 9 or 10, look for a post on 'Ugly Dogs'. The person that posts the pictures goes by Chiendog. You'll also get to see a lot of great photo's of GWPs & DDs in that thread.

Deb
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cheerio
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PostPosted: 02/24/04, 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, this is not a stupid question what so ever and there are a great number of article on the question.
In a very general manner, the Griffon is smaller than the GWP, it is a lot calmer, not as versatile and not as driven as the GWP. It is more hairy, although I have seen pictures of Griffons with very little hair and GWP who could easily be taken for a Griffon. The Griffon does not have the range of colours you will find in the GWP, and perhaps the most drastic difference is that a Griffon is a dog who does not bite.
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mike
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PostPosted: 02/24/04, 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheerio wrote:
and perhaps the most drastic difference is that a Griffon is a dog who does not bite.


Do you have a problem with your GWP biting???
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Baron
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PostPosted: 02/24/04, 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t know if Griffons will bite people, but I know they will bite another dog. One of my dogs carries a small scar on its muzzle from an unprovoked attack by Griffon during a NAVHDA training day. I don’t think that behavior it indicative of the breed, but it just goes to show that under the right condition, almost any dog will bite.
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windy092
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PostPosted: 02/24/04, 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Do you have a problem with your GWP biting???"

We got our GWP from a rescue program and shortly after we brought him home my son was coming to visit. Of course, at 24, he knew everything and when I cautioned him not to just come walking into the house because we had a new dog whose habits we were not yet familiar with, he assured me that HE knew how to handle a dog. Rolling Eyes When he came walking into the house without knocking, our new GWP (who had a bit of trouble with men as it was) flew at him and nipped him in the crotch. Shocked That was the only time he bit anyone. If a stranger comes to the door he sounds like a fierce watch dog, but to us and those he gets to know he is a big baby and a lover. It's been three years since we got him and he is extremely devoted to both my husband and me. I can take food right out of his mouth or take bones & chewies away from him with no problem. He still doesn't like my son, though. Surprised (Maybe he didn't taste very good.) Confused
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Keith
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PostPosted: 02/24/04, 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that wirehairs are a dog for everyone. They have a protective side. Not all of them but many of them. If you are a dog owner that wants a dog that can be neglected and untrained then you really shouldn't buy a wirehair. They don't handle neglect well. But if you will take them from an early age and socialize them and train them and spend some time every day with them they are very good dogs. Highly intelligent and highly trainable, deeply loyal. They want to please their trainer.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 02/25/04, 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it can be difficult to know which breed you are looking at. There are Griffy looking GWP's and Wirey looking Griffs. There are a couple of things that seperate the breeds and if you develop a good eye, you can tell the difference.

According to their standard a Griff should have a square head so the entire head and muzzle should be boxier than a Wires. The GWP standard calls for a moderately long head

The Griff has a round eye and the standard calls for the color to be yellow to brown. The GWP standard calls for an oval eye, the darker the better.

The Griff is steel gray (a mix of brown and white) , with a more abundent undercoat which give the coat a more standoffish appearance. The undercoat is also a lighter color than the guard hairs. Also, the Griff will usually carry more coat on it's head and face and this appears to be softer in texture. The Wire standard calls for a tight fitting coat that should not hide the outline of the dog. The head coat is naturally short, harsh.

Size wize... male Griffs should be 22-24 inches, bitches 20-22 inches GWP's males 24-26 bitches smaller but not under 22 inches. So the GWP should begin where the Griffs leave off. The Griff may appear to be larger because they are or appear to be bulkier, more compact and are squarer. GWPs are to be a bit longer than they are tall.

Temperment wise, from my readings the Griff is probably a more laid back dog, not quite as charged up as a GWP may be. I don't know that they are or are not, more prone to bite or not bite than any other breed on the planet. I have seen some that have been very "growley" others that were very sweet.

The next time you get the chance to really look at both breeds side by side.... note the differences. They may be subtle, but they are there.

Justa GWP's
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ME
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PostPosted: 02/25/04, 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

once you see them hunt it is real easy Laughing Embarassed
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cheerio
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PostPosted: 02/25/04, 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the priviledge to share my life with 2 GWP, both females and both rescued, and I have never had a biting issue. However, It is reported that the GWP is a good guard dog who will not hesitate to bite. Furthermore, some bad breeding also has produced more aggressive GWP.
As far as Griffon is concerned, there is no doubt that as in any breed, you can have a dog more protective and/or more aggressive than the other. However, I have read in different breed bouks and learnt in my behaviour modification classes that as a general rule, the Griffon is not a dog that bites. I guess what it means is that if you were to check the entire GWP population and compare it to the entire population of Griffons, you would find very few Griffon who would have caused a bite on a person whereas far more GWP would have. Please do not understand this as to mean that the GWP is a biter, he is not, but he is a good protector. The Griffon is not.
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