German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Forum Index German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America
AKC Parent Club for the German Wirehaired Pointer
 
 ForumForum FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 gwpca bulletin boardGWPCA Home Page   gwpca bulletin boardBulletin Board   gwpca bulletin boardGWPCA Rescue Page 

Water test questions???
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Forum Index -> Training for field
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roosterridge
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: 01/23/04, 9:20 pm    Post subject: Water test questions??? Reply with quote

Hello I am new to this so the questions I am asking are borne out of ignorance. Anyhow forging ahead, I am interested in Hunt testing one of my GWP's and I live in Colorado. I have not found a any clubs offering a water test so my first question is how do I find a listing of water tests?

Secondly I was wondering is there is any way to recieve water test credit if the dog in question has passed a NAVHDA Utility test? They have something that appears similiar, again speaking from ignorance, to the water test in the NAVHDA UT test. It is called the "retrieve of duck" in the NAVHDA testing manual and appears to go beyond what is being asked in the water test.

Anyhow any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony
Master
Master


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 197
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: 01/24/04, 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the GWP clubs or the Weimeriner (sp?) clubs, as far as I know, these are the only 2 AKC Hunt Test organizations that are doing the water test.

Though the NAVHDA UT water work is much more difficult than the AKC Water Test, it does not qualify towards the AKC requirements.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dualgwp
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Location: New Hope PA

PostPosted: 01/24/04, 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony is right, the only breed clubs that offer water tests are the Weims and us. Thats because we are the only breed that needs them for a Field Championship (both breeds) and our breed for a SH or MH title as well.
Unfortunately there isn't a Wire club in Colorado, but there is probably a Weim club somewhere. And I'm sure there will be a water test at the GWP Nationals that will be held in MI this fall. That will give you plenty of time to get your pooch ready to run and get the water requirment at the same time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cmmilach
Senior
Senior


Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 113
Location: Centennial, CO

PostPosted: 01/24/04, 8:50 pm    Post subject: Water Test Question Reply with quote

Hi,

I live in Centennial, CO & I belong to the Mile High Weimaraner Club. You can check out our website at www.mhwc.org.

Also, go to Fieldtrialnews.com & click on the calendar. It will list all the upcoming field trials & hunt tests. The MHWC is planning on hosting a water test in August of this year.

You can contact me at ciaradoc@aol.com if you have any other questions.

Cathy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
ME
Junior
Junior


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 65

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Find a HRC club that is in your area. The NAVHDA retrieve of the duck is ok but not much really. Your dog will need to be UKC registered and then it can enter any HRC test. These are the retriever people. Since the GWP clubs at this time don't require a water test. Putting a retriever title on the dog will be fun and everyone will come to the line to see your dog run since it isn't a Lab... Laughing This link will tell you more about the local clubs..

http://144.92.78.57/
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dualgwp
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Location: New Hope PA

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Since the GWP clubs at this time
don't require a water test. "

The GWP does need a water test to complete a FC, AFC, SH or MH title.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Vom Britt
Junior
Junior


Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 63
Location: Central WI.

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two of my GWP's, one 12 months old at the time, passed a GWPCA sanctioned water test. It wasn't much of a water test IMO, but it was a water test required by the breed club & is a start.

Does anyone know the politics it would take for the GWPCA to accept a NAVHDA Utility test title or possibly just a pass in the Retrieve of Duck portion, for a GWPCA & AKC water pass? The retrieve of dead duck in the NAVHDA test requires that the dog remain steady near a blind through gunfire with the handler out of sight, remain steady through four more shots before the duck is launched, released and expected to retrieve the bird to hand.

Common sense tells me from reading about the difficulties finding sanctioned water tests, that approving of respected water test requirements in differing formats, just may help the situation and improve the breed.
_________________
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Luke
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ME, What's difference between HRC and NAHRA Question
Luke
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dualgwp
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Location: New Hope PA

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's too darn cold and icy to go outside to do anything today, can't wait for spring!
I hope I'm not "hogging" the board, but nothing else to do....
Bob, AKC only accept AKC events and therefore AKC titles . It would be wonderful if we could use the NAVHDA test to work towards our water test requirements, but unfortunately we can't. At least not for any official title from akc.

The GWPCA has started, or is working on a versatile title for GWPCA members dogs, and it has been decided that NAHVDA tests will be accepted toward that. Thank goodness! It would be wonderful if the club could start our own versatile testing program, and it has been proposed in the past. But it's never gotten off the ground. If there were a group of folks that really wanted to see it happen, it could happen, but so far no one will step to the plate and take it on.


But, now that we need a water test, maybe more club will get moving and make sure that they hold one a year. Who knows, maybe it will get some folks moving who live in areas that don't have clubs, to get one started?! That would be great.

I know that there are some folks in the Carolina's that are trying to get a club together, mainly so they can hold a water test. I hope they succeed!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ME
Junior
Junior


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 65

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't need no water test to get a MH on my dog.



When did they get this sudo test..

Quote:
passed a GWPCA sanctioned water test. It wasn't much of a water test IMO,








Luke,
Here is a post from another forum that I read and this guy has run both. He gives a good explanation.


Quote:
In the "Started" level, I think UKC has shorter marks than NAHRA. Once you get to the Intermediate and Senior levels, there are bigger differences. HRC marks and blinds are a little longer, but in HRC, you don't have to be quite as accurate in blinds as you do in NAHRA. In NAHRA, in addition to water and land marks, you also have a steady to flush, quartering and trailing a scent trail. In HRC, the "Upland" portion is an entirely seperate test (which leads to the UH - Upland Hunter title. So, in HRC, you can do basically the same stuff as NAHRA, but in two seperate venues & would lead to two seperate titles. In NAHRA, it's all inclusive. In HRC, YOU shoot a gun (poppers). This makes you take some of your attention away from the dog, while in NAHRA, you just point a fake gun and gunners out in the field shoot. Both oraganizations require that the dog make the flush This is fine as long as your dog can be relied on to remain good at pointing even if you sometimes allow (command) the dog to make the flush.

In essence :
Started Level -- pretty similar, except in NAHRA, yo will have 5 retrieves -- in HRC, you will have 4.

Intermediate : HRC blinds allow for more sloppiness, but will probably be a little longer than NAHRA. Both require a land blind -- but HRC also has a water blind. And in NAHRA, you will also have a quartering test as well as a trailing test (scent trail).

Senior : Both organizations are close on distance (HRC is a little farther), and HRC might be a little more technical. HRC is farther, but allows for a little sloppiness for the blinds than NAHRA does, and NAHRA judges frequently make the starting point for blinds more difficult than in HRC.

BOTH organizations are very fun, but as far as testing the TOTAL abilities of a Hunting Retriever in ONE test, NAHRA is tougher (because of the trailing test -- although HRC rules allow a trailing test (in the Upland Hunter division), I've never heard of one being used. HRC requires more from the handler, while NAHRA requires more of the dog.

If a NAHRA test and a HRC test were to be held in the same vicinity on the same day, and you wanted to test the TOTAL abilities of you and your dog, then I'd go with NAHRA. If you wanted something equivalent from HRC, you'd run two seperate tests (one as a retriever and one as an upland hunter).
I truly don't know which one I like best -- they both have their strong and weak points. This year, I plan to run in both -- but because of the distance I have to travel, if each organization had a test on the same weekend, I'd go with NAHRA, because the closest HRC tests to me are 350 miles, while the NAHRA club is only 90 miles.

In NAHRA, the senior title is Master Hunting Retriever, whereas in HRC, it's called Hunting Rteriever Champion. HRCH sounds more impressive. Also, titles earned in HRC go on the pedigree from UKC, but NAHRA titles don't appear on any registry.

If you have the chanceI'd say to try both of them out and decide if one suits you better than the other. They are both a kick, and the dogs really don't care. As I said, I'll probably run in both this year.

Doc....

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Luke
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if any of retriever folks will want to enter the gwp water test? Maybe that would encourage more gwp groups to hold the tests?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony
Master
Master


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 197
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: 01/25/04, 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke wrote:
I wonder if any of retriever folks will want to enter the gwp water test? Maybe that would encourage more gwp groups to hold the tests?


That would be okay! I'm sure it would be a great money maker for the chapters.

I hope they don't try to enter their "pointing" labs in the field trials or hunt tess though. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ME
Junior
Junior


Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 65

PostPosted: 01/26/04, 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No retrievers will enter a GWP water event. AKC won't allow it. Just like my GWP can't run AKC retiever tests.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dualgwp
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Location: New Hope PA

PostPosted: 01/26/04, 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new reuirement was added June 1, 2003 I think. Or somewhere near that time frame. So, if you finished a Senior or Master title after that date, you had to also pass a water test to finish the title. Am guessing you finished your MH prior to that?

Talking about other breeds entering a test, they could if they wanted to enter, but their pass or fail would not be sent to AKC. In fact, if a club wanted to they could get very creative with a water test. If they wanted to, they could run an advanced test, and put all kinds of requirements on what the dog had to do. It just wouldn't really count toward anything, but might be fun and it might just get us moving on some tougher tests down the road.

This addition is hopefully just a first step (thats nothing official mind you) and something many many people have wanted for years.

The GSPCA has an "unofficial" water test in place now with several levels of work in it. No reason we couldn't do the same....???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
KJ
Member
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Oregon/Idaho

PostPosted: 01/26/04, 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the GWP club wanted to use a NAVHDA UT for a 'water test' bad enough, couln't they find a way? Or maybe just sign off that they passed the water test if they passed the UT, I don't think anybody would be too upset. A dog could get a '2' in both the duck search and the duck retrieve (which are pretty poor marks and still get a prize III)and it would still say more about the dog's water capabilities than the AKC water test. If a mature, broke GWP can't pass the AKC water test it should probably be spayed or neutured on the spot.

Could the AKC make 3 water tests for versatiles? JWD, SWD and MWD? With the JWD having a couple bumper retrieves and a duck chase to the MWD having a duck search, blind retrives, doubles, etc? How hard would something like this be to get going?

DualGWP,
Still frozen up here, too. Thought I could find some open water to swim the dogs last weekend and when I got there, people were icefishing Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Forum Index -> Training for field All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group