German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Forum Index German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America
AKC Parent Club for the German Wirehaired Pointer
 
 ForumForum FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 gwpca bulletin boardGWPCA Home Page   gwpca bulletin boardBulletin Board   gwpca bulletin boardGWPCA Rescue Page 

GWP vs. GSP
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Forum Index -> Training for field
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Chinchy
Junior
Junior


Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 33
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: 06/10/03, 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GWP and the DD`s under coat is what help`s keep them warm when wet!! A shorthair does`nt possess this under coat plain & simple! I have owned plenty of GSP`s and when they are dipped for fleas,it is reall easy to wet them to the skin. It takes a lot more effort to get the dip clear to the skin on GWP`s. As some one else mentioned when my gwp`s shake off they really don`t hold that much left over moisture, and their skin feel`s drier. I have hunted E.-Pointers & Shorthairs in the cold wet snow,and when they get wet they are wet to the bone, GWP`s thrive on the same condition`s!!! The Filson Co. claims their wool clothes keep you warm even if wet, much the same for GWP`s & DD`s I believe!
_________________
Loyd Tollett
Rock Hill Kennel
Proud Owner & Home Of
Black & White German Wirehaired Pointers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baron
Junior
Junior


Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 54

PostPosted: 06/11/03, 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith,

I'm not sure what you consider a "good coat," but I if you read my earlier post you would have noticed that I conceded that the longer coat would trap more air, and therefore, be warmer when dry. However, it will not be dry while swimming, and, the fact is, dog fur is a poor insulator when wet. So, I have an experiment for you. Next time it's really cold out, take a light weight coat and a heavy coat, soak them both in water, then stand out in the cold. It won't really matter which one you're wearing, you're going to get very cold, very fast.

Actually, I am not disturbed by your facts, because you really haven't presented any. Almost everything you have stated in this discussion has been supposition and personal opinion, most of which has been pretty easy to refute.

Parshal,

You hit the nail on the head. The dog with the most body mass and the ability to keep its skin driest will stay the warmest. However, as you noted, there is a considerable variance in coat quality among GWPs, and those with harsh, dense coats will fair better than those with softer coats. The same is true for shorthairs. In my opinion, the best coats in "shorthairs" are probably coming from the DKs or lines with recent infusions of DKs. I have one dog whose one parent is a DK and the other parent was a mix of DK and American lines. His fur is short, harsh and very dense. After swimming, he can almost shake himself dry and probably dries about 3 times faster than my other dog, whose coat is longer, but softer and less dense.

Chinchy,

I've seen the Filson ads too. However, the first thing you must realize is that Filson is trying to sell a product. Wool is probably the best natural fiber insulator we have that can be made into clothing. It is warm and it is durable. When wool gets wet, it will retain some ability to keep you warm, but that ability is greatly reduced, and isn't very effective. When wool gets wet it stays wet for a long time and loses the ability to wick moisture away from your body. And, since heat loss occurs at the surface and water is an efficient conductor of heat, wet wool allows a lot of heat loss. This is why most modern insulating active ware is made of synthetic materials instead of wool (i.e. Polar Fleece, Thermastat, Thermax, etc.). Some manufacturers will add 10% - 15% wool for durability, but the other 85% - 90% is synthetic because it has the ability to wick moisture away from the body, dries extremely fast, and has hollow fibers that trap air to provide effective insulation, even while wet.

Also, it may take more effort to get a GWP wet to the skin when dipping them, but when they swim, they get wet to the skin just like a GSP (at least my GWPs did). And, just like wool, when their undercoat gets wet, it loses most of its ability to insulate.

The fact is, fur is simply not an effective insulator when wet. If it was, it would follow that mammals spending a significant amount of time in frigid water (i.e. seals, otters, walruses, polar bears, etc.) would have developed thick wooly undercoats, but that is not the case. However, they did develop significant body mass relative to their size because increased body mass is the most efficient way to retains heat. Other land mammals follow the same pattern. Whitetail deer, at the northern most reaches of their range (Alberta, Saskatawan, etc.), where cold is extreme, may have twice the body mass of deer in AL or GA. However, their hair is not significantly longer nor do they possess a wooly undercoat.

All that being said, if you think your dog will get cold in a duck blind, put a vest on it. The thermal properties of the vest will keep the dog warm, regardless of breed and regardless of coat. So, unless you feel GWPs are better swimmers or have better retrieval skills (which I'm sure Keith does), the argument about which breed is best suited for waterfowling is really pointless.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Keith
Master
Master


Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 163

PostPosted: 06/11/03, 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wirehairs are better duck dogs. Shorthairs will never be widely used as duck dogs but I have seen several books and articles that have recommended wirehairs for the job if you want a multi-purpose dog. A shorthair will work fine as long as you don't hunt in cold water. If I lived in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, southern California or south Texas then a shorthair would be fine. Or if I just hunted the first half of the season. But where I hunt with the threat of ice for about half of the season a wirehair is better. I do like the neoprene vests and highly recommend them. Even with the superior wirecoat that dries quickly and keeps the dog warmer the vest helps. I like to warm my fingers by putting them in between the dog and his thick wire fur. They stay real warm in there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baron
Junior
Junior


Joined: 30 May 2003
Posts: 54

PostPosted: 06/11/03, 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s humorous. A good sense of humor is an admirable quality. It’s good to know there’s no need to take what you say seriously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
admin
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 33

PostPosted: 06/12/03, 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locking thread before tempers get lost. I believe this horse has been beaten enough Smile

BBAdmin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Forum Index -> Training for field All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group