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DEER HUNTING WITH GWP'S
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sambarman
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PostPosted: 09/25/03, 6:40 pm    Post subject: DEER HUNTING WITH GWP'S Reply with quote

I currently use a GWP to hunt Sambar Deer in Victoria, Australia. I am keen to hear from others who hunt large game using GWP's. Question
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 09/27/03, 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G`day sambaman,I don`t know too many guys that hunt `wires` on deer in NZ.But I did read a issue of nz rod & rifle,about a guy that hunts Reds and Sika in the North Is.Very thick bush ,dog was always close to the master.When the GSP was on the point,master would go forward for the shot.Dog was then permitted to begin the search for wounded,dead deer.The author/owner said the this GSP in the article was the best deer dog ,he or his father had ever owned.They did have `wire` deer dogs years before the GSP.I belive a air charter owner in the central NTH Is owns a `wire` to hunt deer.Very successful by all accounts.Though I was told this by a `wire` breeder.
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sambarman
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PostPosted: 10/08/03, 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Kiwimac. I am impressed with my wire's performance in pointing and tracking sambar in their mountain forest habitat. So impressed, that I am looking to import quality bloodlines into Australia primarily for the purpose of stalking sambar deer. I have already made arrangements to get a quality pup from the US. Are you aware of any wires in kiwiland that would fit the bill? [/list]
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Keith
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PostPosted: 10/08/03, 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in the U.S. hunting deer with dogs is extremely restricted. I have had wirehairs that were good deer trackers that I had to break since you are not allowed to hunt deer with dogs here. I have read about wirehairs that were used to track boar or javelina, sometimes on a leash. Some hunters also have trained their wirehairs to track wounded big game. If I was serious about using a wirehair to track big game I would probably buy from a breeder more involved with the DD organization. They stress the tracking abilities more and many members train their dogs to track wounded big game. As wirehairs become more Americanized they lose some of their tracking abilities. Over here in bird dog field trials a high head is stressed with more range. They want dogs that hunt more like an English pointer. I personally don't mind a dog putting their head to the ground to work out ground scent. Many times a dog with good tracking skills will outproduce a dog that uses air scent alone. A good dog will adjust and use what is available, air scent or ground scent.
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sambarman
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PostPosted: 10/08/03, 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Keith, thanks for the info. I have been rivetted to the GWP forum for a couple of months now. The hunting of Sambar deer using recognised pointing breeds in my home State of Victoria is quite legal and an accepted method utilised by a significant number of hunters. Most hunters also use their deer pointing dogs on other game - duck, quail, rabbits, hares, foxes, feral pigs etc. Unfortuneately, GWP's aren't all that common down here, reputable and credible breeders are pretty light on. Most breeders are non hunters and seem to be focussed on the show ring and not the field. This attitude in the past, has severely stifled the quality of many breeds of gundog in this country. On the other hand, unqualified and inexperienced owners are breeding GWP's on an ad hoc basis - crossing their fingers hoping for the best. This, I'm sure, will have disasterous results for the future of the breed here.

I am determined to establish a quality hunting line of GWP's in Australia and would be pleased to hear from other hunters/breeders who could offer advice on appropriate bloodlines and breeders in the US, Europe and elsewhere.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Regards,

Sambarman

P.S. I have some great hunting pics of my GWP's in action. I'll post them on this forum when I work out how to do it. Embarassed
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Keith
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PostPosted: 10/09/03, 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kind of diverse hunting you do there sounds custom made for German wirehairs. They are very intelligent and fully capable of hunting any type of game with the proper training and breeding. I wish I could utilize their deer hunting potential but game laws prohibit it. Every year while hunting rabbits, quail, woodcock and pheasants I have the opportunity to take deer with the dogs help but I have to pass. Last night I was running my dogs and got some good solid points on snipe. It takes dogs a while to learn how to handle them but I have one dog that has gotten real good at pointing them. I will begin my duck season in the next couple of weeks followed by quail, woodcock and pheasants. Where I live their longer coats come in real handy during duck season and give them an edge in the ice duck hunting over the other pointing dogs. Their camo coloring also helps hide them. In addition to this website be sure to checkout the DD websites too when choosing a breeder. They really stress the all around potential of the breed unlike some wirehair breeders that put more emphasis on their upland bird hunting abilities only.
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sambarman
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PostPosted: 10/09/03, 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't get a lot of ice down here, even though it does get pretty cold. Our dogs often hunt above the snowline and in vast blackberry/briar thickets (good sambar deer habitat). The rough coat offers some protection from the prickles.

The local farmers are planting their rice crops in the next couple of weeks. This usually attracts swarms of Pacific Black Duck, Maned Duck, Teal etc. A few of us have been invited to assit in controlling duck numbers. I recon this will be a good opportunity to some retrieving practice in. [/img]
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Tony A
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PostPosted: 12/25/03, 9:03 pm    Post subject: re hunting and confirmation Reply with quote

Hi my name is Tony and I am new to this forum. I was interested to read the conversation on hunting GWP's that Samberman was discussing. I have had a GWP now for 7 years and now have one of his daughters. She is now 12 months old. Before that I had Weimaraners that I competed with in obedience as well as hunting in the field...ducks quail etc.
My GWP is an Aust Champion in conformation he is also excells in deer hunting and has scored me a number of trophies.I use him on quail and duck also. His daughter is showing great potential in these fields. She to has nearly gained her show title. The point I am trying to make is that I believe confirmation and temepermant are as important as hunting ability. I agree that there are certainly breeders out there that dont know what they are doing but i have been involved with breeders who have put alot of time and money into breeding sound dogs with natural hunting ability.
Take a look at my web site.
Tony A
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sambarman
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PostPosted: 12/28/03, 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its great to see that your GWP is and Australian Champ and that he has scored you a number of trophies. You must have one of the few good ones, as I have. I must say, I have planted quite a few to get one good one from the trash available locally. In desperation, have recently imported a DD from a breeder in Germany.

I hope you don't fall in with the so called professional breeders here in Australia. They boast photos of GWPS standing next to stag carcasses still in soft velvet. This reflects their skill, knowledge and ethics as hunters. I wonder if the same goes for dedication to breed excellence?

With all due respect, time and money are not enough to establish the quality required. Skill, knowledge, experience, attention to detail and intolerance of medicocrity are also critical factors, don't you think?

Cheers,

Sambarman
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Tony A
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PostPosted: 12/28/03, 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit that when I ordered my first GWP from a NSW breeder. I was insistant that I had a dog with hunting ability and a dog that was very outgoing in personality no matter what it looked like....I was not wanting to show the dog but just wanted hunting potential. I was lucky that he turned out to be a good specimen of the breed although he did not have alot of coat. My partner breeds golden retrievers she also has a very good retriever with alot of natural ability, a fantastic duck dog. But she believes ,as I now do, that it is possible to breed gundogs that can prove themselves as worthy gundogs in the field and conform to the breed standard as well...and breed for excellence in both facets. Of course the more knowledge and experience you have the better and you can never stop learning. I dont know why you are so down on breeders here in Australia, there are not that many of them and a couple that I know have put a lot of time and dedication in to the breed.They are breeding for excellence not medicocrity.
I see you live in Victoria as I do .......do you hunt with a group?
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sambarman
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PostPosted: 12/28/03, 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not down on breeders of good quality animals at all. I'm just down on the amateures out there putting themselves up as reputable breeders, when in fact, they wouldn't know difference between a good GWP and a dunny brush.

What is their breeding stock selection criteria?
Where is it written down?
How do they assess a breeding dog's ability in the field?
How do they evaluate ability?
Are there any testimonials available from credible local sources, as to the ability or otherwise of these dogs.

I am a resident of Victoria and I hunt with a number of groups. I am not a commercial breeder nor do I intend to be. If you can direct me to a breeder with some credibilty and who happens to breed top quality hunting dogs I'm all ears.

I take it that your assertion that local breeders are "breeding for excellence not mediocrity" is based on what they tell you? Or is it based on fact? Please enlighten me.

Regards,

Sambarman
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Tony A
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PostPosted: 12/29/03, 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you, there amatures around in every breed of dog that are arrogant enough to claim they are 'reputable breeders'....and the innocent public have no idea what they are buying. In some breeds you have the problem of puppy farming because the breed is popular,these breeders are even less reputable and do alot of damage to a breed. We will never have the problem of being that popular.
I personally could not recommend anyone here in Victoria but in NSW a long time breeder of top quality dogs with hunting ability, has dediated her life to the breed...imported and exported. Holds a data base of 3,500 GWP's from all over the world. Is the only breeder to have bred GWP's with titles in field, retrieveing. obedience,agility,endurance and have bred 50 multi in show and in group show champions here and 5 in NZ. I bought my first GWP from her but I am not interested in competing in the field for a title...I simply wanted a dog that could hunt deer,duck,quail etc. and put in an honest days work for me.
I wouldnt buy a dog from anyone unless I had done my homework first.
Unfortunately the breeder I have mentioned died 3 1/2 weeks ago but her daughter will hopefully carry on with her mothers work. She was very involved with the breed also.
Regards,
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ENL
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PostPosted: 12/29/03, 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony:

Is Morgie black? Hard to tell from the photo.

Beautiful dogs.
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Tony A
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PostPosted: 12/29/03, 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ENL,
Thankyou...Morgie is liver and roan.
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ENL
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PostPosted: 12/29/03, 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty dog.

e
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