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Tips for 1st time owner/trainer. To be!

 
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 07/10/03, 8:29 pm    Post subject: Tips for 1st time owner/trainer. To be! Reply with quote

G`day mate`s,I just regestered .Great setup you have here.New Zealands duck season has just finished for most Fish & Game regions in NZ.Bird #`s up,season extened,it`s all good.Now I`m about to take the plunge & get a GWP.In a land where the GSP dominates amongst the versatile breeds.Hence there is a lack of GWP breeders here,However I`ve managed to locate a few breeders.Recently,I viewed a soon to be breeding pair of GWP`s.Did the standard inspection/Q&A session.I`ve never owned/trained a gundog b4.So I was somewhat concered when the breeder informed me she doesn`t hunt. Show & sled racing is her game.The dogs are both imported.The bitch from a quality UK kennel, dog from a top Aussie kennel.Are my concers unfounded?There are many gundog trialing clubs locally,so training venues are not an issue.I`m building up a collection of books for training etc.I need to get my dog trained correctly 1st time up.As I `ve never owned/trained a gundog b4 it`s imperitive that I have the skill level to do this fine breed justice ,to reach it`s intended full potential.Info on my back ground for those of you who wish to assit me on my quest.1xwife,2xboys,8&6 yrs,large fenced yard,1x cat,access to lands that abound with upland gamebirds,as is the wetland habitat`s,3x shotguns,1xduck boat & 1x powerful will to introduce a GWP to be a loyal productive member of my clan.Regards kiwimac
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KYSER
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PostPosted: 07/11/03, 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't buy from this breeder unless you want to hunt for shows or sleds. Conformation and a well built dog is important but this breeder
sounds like they would not be bettering a hunting breed in my opinion.
GWP's were not bred to show or pull sleds, they are hunters.
A reputable breeder, in my opinion, is one that breeds to get the offspring to be better than the parents.
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cheerio
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PostPosted: 07/12/03, 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GWP pulling sleds? This is a new one for me, I never realized that the breed was used in such a way. Given its conformation, and I mean by that the way the GWP is built, I have to question whether it is a fair line of work for such a dog. Am I wrong?
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 07/12/03, 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G`day Kyser.Thanx for the advice mate.As I said, GWP breeders are thin on the ground downunder at this stage.I`ve checked out the breeders of both imported dogs.Russell,the sire to be (korstekote kennels Aust) has a brother in the USA at the moment conducting NAVHDA NA tests(?).The dam to be Harriot (kimmax kennels UK) has proven hunting lineage.According to e-mails from both kennels.Both of which have web sites.Kyser,do think,with my limited breeder options and the GWP`s proven levels of intelligence,that a pup introduced to a hunting family regardless of it`s breeders lack of hunting background, could not make a successful transition? Cheerz.
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 07/12/03, 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G`day Cheerio, thanx for the reply.I can tell you whilst researching the GWP web sites in NZ,I too, was suprised that GWP`s where involved in sled racing.Always figured that Huskies and Samoyd`s were the only sled dogs?The site said that in the Nordic nations,GWP`s are used extensivley in sled racing.The northen regions of Scandinavia are snow/ice covered for many months of each year.Sled racing in NZ is a minority cannine sport as you could imagine.However, the (human male)partner of the GWP`s I`ve inspected, ensures me that said dogs are mentally superior to his Samoyd`s.Determination,is what I belive he meant.Mark, the sled racer,said the GWP`s condition factor,at season`s end is truely magnificent.In a nation like Canada,I would have thought you `snowbacks` with your harsh winters might have utilised this option Wink Cheerz
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KYSER
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PostPosted: 07/12/03, 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiwimac
As you said, you want to hunt. I am not a breeder and myself a first time GWP owner. My reply came from reading and advice I've found on the internet. I believe I read somewhere that the pups actually get their genes from the grandparents, so with that in mind mabey a sled pulling show dog could throw some worthwile pups, I dont know but I know there are some well informed people on this web site that I hope to be meeting this weekend at a GWP club outing.
Good Luck in your search, I know if you could make the trip to the USA you could find what you want. Check out www.fdgwpc.org for some breeder information. Mabey they can help.
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cheerio
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PostPosted: 07/13/03, 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiwimac, I find this information very interesting. Would you know the address of the site in question by any chance?
As far as genes are concerned, Kyser is right. I am a breeder and I can tell you that pups are more likely to be like their grand-parents than like their parents, in looks and in workability. Although I have never used a dog to hunt, and know very little of what is needed to make a good hunter, it has been my experience that a dog who has sufficient qualities and work ethics to perform any type of work is workable in all areas the breed is known for. As such, if I find a good agility dog, in a Belgian, I know that chances are, he will be a good SAR dog, a good obedience dog... Being able to perform requires drive and focus. Perhaps it is the same for hunting? And I am here addressing my question to those members who have the hunting dog experience.


Last edited by cheerio on 07/14/03, 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baron
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PostPosted: 07/13/03, 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheerio,

That is not entirely true when it comes to hunting dogs. Certain innate qualities, such as nose, prey drive, pointing, retrieving, etc., are required. No matter how much drive and focus the dog has, without those qualities, it will not make a good hunting dog.

Kiwimac

Personally, I would not purchase a pup based on such limited information. The NAVHDA NA Test is a natural ability test for puppies. It is used to determine if the attributes I listed above are present in the dog (with the exception of retrieving). If they are, and the pup has been properly prepared for the test, it will pass. However, to what extent these qualities are present, and how strong they are, will not be determined until the dog has gone much further in its training. Many pups do well in the Natural Ability test, but are unable to go on to earn a NAVHDA Utility Title, which would be more indicative of a “finished” gun dog. Even if the brother to the sire passes, it does not mean that the sire possesses the same abilities. Not all puppies in a litter are created equal.

Also “proven” hunting lineage means different things to different people. Are her bloodlines proven through testing, or did the breeder just take the dogs hunting sometimes? If dogs from that bloodline have been tested, the breeders should be able to produce test scores that can be evaluated against the testing organization’s standard.

This breeder does not breeding for hunting or versatile abilities in her dogs. Therefore, the breeder has no way of focusing on, or breeding for, the innate abilities necessary to produce quality hunting dogs. Based on what you have said, I would stay away from this breeding. If you can’t find a reputable breeder of GWPs from hunting bloodlines in NZ, you may have to consider having a dog imported from the US or Europe.
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 07/14/03, 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheerio:I`ve been trying to find that site that interests you.Alas,no joy yet.It was several months ago,whilst web surfing about GWP`s that I came across the image of the sled team.Two dogs I recall.Sure looked like they were enjoying themselves.The shot was taken in NZ`s Southern Alps in winter.In the summer the teams train in the forests and on the beach`s.They use wheeled buggies,much like trotting horses use at race meetings.Will keep trying for you though.I`m sure to find said site sooner or later.Oh!bye the way.Thanx for the encouraging advice.You Nth Americans sure are blessed to have so many Gwp`s and caring owners up there.Thanx.
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 07/14/03, 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baron:Good advice mate.Sounds like you`re a hunter,good stuff.You`re quite correct regards the breeder in question`s "proven" remark.That said,I checked out the web sites of the dogs home breeders.Remembering ,both animals are imported into NZ.You may need to do a Google search for Korskote Kennels,Australia.This is where Russell,the male was born.Some hunting and field trialing shots on this GWP site.As there is on the Kimmax kennels UK site.This is where Harriot the bitch was born.If you get a chance Baron,check these sites out for me,then give me a second opinion.As far as importing a GWP from the USA goes,I`d love to.Be difficult to get the cost of a such an exercise past the "Iman"(wife) :lol:It cost the NZ breeder $NZ10,000 to get Harriot from the UK.( $US6,000).Better still,why don`t you or one of the members come and visit me here in NZ.Bring a pup with NAVHDA lineage.Be sure to get down here before the 1st Sat in May.This is the gamebird opening day.Generous limits down here.10 greenheads,4 Canada`s,1Black Swan,10 Paradise ducks,10 rails,3 Peasants & no limit on Quail allowed per day.Only 60,000 shooters out of a pop of 4million,in a contry the size of Calf.Too many bloody Labs & nowhere near enough GWP`s.Hell, make it a bussiness trip,and setup a sister org to the NAVHDA here in NZ.Maybe call it the NZVHDA.I built a new hide last summer.Can seat 5 men plus dogs.It`s a big water possie with nobody in front of me.It may interest you Baron to know that Rick Smith,Delmars son I think,does his seminars down here in Sept.$300 for the 3 days. Well,thats my feeble attempt at bribery.Just my frustration showing thru,not having many GWP`s from hunting breeders to select from.It`s GWP`s for me mate,or no dog at all.Cheerz..
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Baron
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PostPosted: 07/15/03, 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiwimac,

I took a look at the both web sites you mentioned. I was encouraged by the fact that both kennels appear to have dogs that hunt. Hopefully, the sire and dam of the pups you are interested in are out of some of these hunting dogs.

Why is it so expensive to import a dog to NZ? Is it because of tariffs, taxes, etc.? The breeder imported a show champion. Would it be equally as expensive to import a pup? You might want to check out the actual cost before you settle on a dog.

I would love to make a trip to NZ to hunt. Unfortunately, I do not see it happening in the near future. Family and business commitments eat of a lot of my time. However, I will keep it in mind, and if I get the chance, I will make the trip. I love to hunt new places. Maybe I could stick a pup under my jacket and slip it into NZ for you.

Good luck with getting a pup.
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kiwimac
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PostPosted: 07/16/03, 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G`day Baron.Thanx for checking those sites out and replying as quickly as you did.Well that is indeed good news for me,you being encouraged by both dogs kennels,re hunting parents.I really need the keen eye of people like yourself.As for the high price for breeders to import GWP`s.I`m not sure why?Most other things in NZ seem reasonably priced.We have no tariff`s on just about ever imported product.In fact, items like Penn Game reels are cheaper here than in the USA in many cases.This country is flooded with junk products,made by slave labor,from communist china.The Reds then use our money to build missiles,then aim them at free nations like yours and mine.Sound familiar!The dog that came over from the UK,had to cover the longest stretch of real estate on the planet.Some air fare expense there of course.Maybe NZ`s very strict quarrentine regs beef the cost up.Especialy from country`s that have a history of foot & mouth diease.Don`t know how much the top UK GWP kennels charge per pup. Out of interest,top GWP`s over here seem to have a asking price between $NZ600-$NZ750 per pup.Along with that top pup under your coat,see if you can find room for a Rem 870 3.5 28" barrel.Cheerz Rob..
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