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2009 National Catalog
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 11/17/09, 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When you have walked as many miles and killed as many birds as I have, hopefully you will be able to read your dog well enough to tell when she is tracking


You walk no more miles than me when you hunt Tony, Im an X athlete and can keep up with the best of them.
Stop the BS'n. Ive hunted since Ive been 12, every weekend of almost every year, over all kinds of dogs.

What you said makes little sense.
Your Dogs Hunt AND track with a High Head? Thats Impossible. He is not working ground scent then, OR Working The TRACK of a moving bird.

When a dog gets scent and makes game, body posture changes and so does the Way in which the dog locates, relocates, tracks and pins game. A high head doesnt cut it. Id own a Setter if it did.


This video of a young DD in Spain is a Prime example and Illustrates my point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb0RkcF0HHU&feature=related


Jim..
This is a Euro Trash Czech DD Counterpart Fousek
Notice how staunch on Hare and easily whod & called off. Notice the Blood tracking later.
Nice dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsAn5iexQeM
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 11/17/09, 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony
Another great Illustration to prove my point
A DD is making game BY TRACKING

The English Pointer the DD is braced with, is running with a high head, runs a straight line, blows by the bird evidently and eventually Backs the DD.

Exhibit A
The DD Produced the Bird BY TRACKING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rfztMV3N5o&feature=related
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Rhonda
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Whiskerdog....
this doesn't look very VDD. A lot of alfalfa sprouts on that head coat. Since pictures do not lie, the setter has a harsh coat and your DD has a long curly coat. I don't know if you could get Jon to stick up for you on this one.

You have absolutely no credibility with me. You talk in circles and contradict yourself. It even contradicts the dog you own. It is obvious that you are not educated about hunting or training bird dogs because the links that you are posting are not good representations of any breed. They spend more time behind the handlers than in front and they look less than happy. I will not click on another link that you post. I find it sad. I want my dogs to work with me and to be happy to be in the field with me. I won't humor you with any more responses.

You are barbaric. You are a bad example of an outdoorsman. I can't believe that you are a teacher. You have no business owning a GWP or chatting on a GWP forum or belonging to a group for GWPs. We don't want your type.

At least Jonnie doesn't contradict himself and believes in what he is saying.

One last thing....as far as outwalking Tony...not a chance. Tony doesn't brag either, but I am here to tell you that he can outwalk most horses and he is in great shape. He is an athlete now....a firefighter.

Jon, you are more than welcome to call me Jim, Jimmy, James or some people even call me Larry. My grandpa used to call me a little jackass...whatever you prefer...

Anyways,
Quote:
What do pheasant do 90% of the time when they run in the CRP? They hook downwind...there goes your "plume". Dogs that aren't willing to put their heads down aren't complete hunting dogs. Your dogs do it too...I know they do. I'll post a pic of a slovenly euro trash dog so you can revel. High headed dogs do great when the birds sit still. Just won $2100 last weekend over longtails at a friendly fundraiser trial last weekend...because the dog worked running pheasant as well as the quail.



Jon you are talking to a man that lives in pheasant country. Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about here, either. You just plain don't make sense to me. I think you have a learning curve, so I am going to keep replying to you so that you can understand. I will just call you my LD student from here on out.

With your picture....are you trying to appeal to the Americans? Did you groom it's head up and tie the leg up with a fishing string? Beautiful landscape.

Quote:
We're just pi$%ing upwind here. I respect all of you in this discussion...what I don't respect is that you will convince yourselves that these "fluffy teased poofs" have anything to do with hunting. Over a drink, you would gladly agree with me. Too bad you're in a club where you can't speak your mind for fear of disrupting the "money" that funds your field trials.

BTW, what is the average age of the participants in the National FT? Considering that 95% of the breed isn't there (what did you draw...10 braces for the Am and the Nat?), what are your plans? Considering that 95% of the breed as well as the rest of the wire coated world couldn't care less what you guys do in the middle of hunting season, what is your plan for the future??


Jon, you would not get me to agree with you over a drink. I am my own person and I speak my opinion. I don't care what people think and I don't hop the fence depending on who I am keeping company with.

I am an extremely loyal person. In return, I expect to have that loyalty respected and returned. When I belong to a group, such as the GWPCA, I will defend it at all costs. I don't even show dogs, but I will defend them because they are a part of the GWPCA. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!!

You can come here and work on splitting the field from the show and try to get a smaller target to bring over to the VDD, but it won't work. I can see through you. I guarantee you that if I wasn't gaining any ground, you would have the whole bulletin board after you.

Jon, you are more than welcome to come and compete at any of our venues. The events are for AKC registered dogs, but that can be accomplished.

There is not a better looking GWP on point than Tony's Digger dog. He may have faults, but bird finding abilty and style on point are not it!!

I've had enough for tonight. I have to guide bird hunts (on wild pheasants with my high headed field trial dogs) in the morning and I have deer hunters in too. I'll see ya tomorrow night after I'm done with all of my work.

Hey, Bernee....is my dog pretty? I'm starting to feel bad cuz these guys say it's not!! Aw he*@...she's laying on the couch next to the cat anyways (the adult feral cat that Rhonda tamed)...I think I'll keep her.

Jim West
We can only be what we give ourselves the power to be
United we stand, Divided we fall....


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Rhonda
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whiskerdog....Rhonda here.

I have just set back and observed for most of this post...aside from ribbing my buddy Tony a bit.

I have a question for you....OK; 2 questions.

1) Why didn't you use a picture from this year's National Field Trial winners? They were readily available.

2) What is it that you think makes the dogs in the photo that you presented (from my website of the 2005 GWPCA Derby) a poor representation?

Oh, I'm not sure why you put the whole page in either. Was it something I wrote?

I see you spewing all of your distaste on hunting style differences, but don't know what that has to do with the dogs in the photos. Apparently, you think that they are phenotypically flawed....please elaborate.

Also, I just wanted to let you know that Jim has trained multiple breeds and has accumulated over 80 FC and AFC titles, 20 or more American Field hour wins, countless Top Ten dogs in multiple breeds and at least 6 National Field Championship titles. He also trains dogs for NSTRA, NBHA, Bird Dog Challenges and NAVHDA. He has also trained hundreds of hunting dogs for the foot hunters. He guides....with meat dogs and field trial dogs.

I goose hunt with wires that have NO problem breaking ice and handling the cold. I also use a National Champion GSP that breaks ice on the river, too. That isn't hard either. (Although the current in the river can take some dogs by surprise if they have only hunted ponds.)

We are fortunate to live in prime bird country...wild pheasant and quail in our back yard, prairie chickens, sharptails and huns just a couple of hours away, and we sit on the river in the middle of one of the heaviest flyways for migrating geese and ducks. This definitely enables us to expose our dogs to a vast number of situations and enhance their natural versatility.

That's all I have for now....

Rhonda
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Jon
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...its all getting a little ridiculous now, isn't it?

The point was about glorifying and rewarding made up coats, many with long soft hair on the leading edges where it really counts when hunting.
Y'all know what's going on in your show rings ... no more need be said.
And, Jimmy, IF you are this nation's leading hunter, you know how worthless a coat is with long tresses. I can't believe that you're all happy when you look at the list of BIS dogs and see most of those coats (the "distinguishing characteristic of the breed"). But again, if the show folks foot the bill, then what's your choice.

BTW, EVERY dog will put its head down and point sometimes with the head lower or higher...that whole discussion is just a smokescreen (ALL trial people "run home to Momma" with the high head discussion). The Pointers we took money off 2 weeks ago did exactly that, and few if any GWP trial dogs can compete in that arena. 95% of the hunters in this country could care less where a dog's head is when it points...they do care about bird finding and manners on birds....WAY more. What you're talking about is man made "beauty" criteria...so let's call it what it is. Try to explain to hunters why a dog with 2 finds and "style" beats a dog with 6 finds and a little less style. Trying to breed "Pointer-wanna-bes" shouldn't be a goal...but that train left long ago.

I made a serious suggestion...start showing your dogs "naked" and maybe you'll get more participation rather than favoring the dog with the best groomer. Its a serious suggestion. Dual has been complaining for years that the performance guys avoid the shows, so level the playing field and do the breed a favor....no back brushing, spraying, chalk helper, cholesterol, "hair bags" on the stifles....see what these show dogs look like as if they were going to hunt....not as if they were going to the Terrier Group.

Jimmy,
That dog doesn't need to be stripped....EVER....you just brush her out occasionally....and vacuum out the gobs of undercoat from around her crate in the spring. We have longer coats too and some softer coats...but we don't reward soft coats and make them National Champions...just like we don't reward aggressive dogs with ROM status.

Jimmy wants to have a discussion about who's the man's man here...so carry on.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You have absolutely no credibility with me. You talk in circles and contradict yourself.


Pot, Kettle, Black

My dogs coat was rated an 8. 'Gut' or Good, even after blowing it due to a food change.
She has her faults, I never intimated otherwise, but I am very happy with her.

Better photo if you like.
Not the best example of the breed, but a decent one.. I strip her twice per year, but not in the Fall! The photo with the setter showed no coat to even make an observation, yet you comment on it?
Quote:
A Long curly coat
Actually, Its less than 2 centimeters, well within Breed standard.

Mines breedable and passed her exams..hips, coat, teeth, hunting.
Some more for you to see what a decent, not great specimen, should look like.

Those i saw in the GWP Nationals photos should all be culled or spayed, imho.

Some say Hunting itself is Barbaric. Or invading and Occupying another nation on Lies. Thats barbaric. Videos of training dogs, (with no ecollar mind you) doing what they love, is not barbaric.
The dogs I showed in video all seem well trained and enjoying their work.
I have no idea why you even made such a stupid comment.







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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Jim is afraid to click on this video made for the AZ Fish and Wildlife? Features DDs used as hunting guides.

Dont be afraid Jim, no animals were traumatized in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVTkhZLyig&feature=related


A German DD baying a Boar, one of my favorites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqeWFmhy-ew&feature=related


Jim, just admit, you dont like the breed, the way the Standard Defined it.
You want a 'new and improved' griffon mannered dog that runs like a pointer
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon, this is a quote from you on another forum... "I have been a "bitch man" most of my dog life (have fun with that one!!) but this is my fourth male in the past 6 years and none of them have made the program....and I guess its starting to get me down. If..."

If the DD program is doing it's job so well, why would anyone have 4 washouts in 6 yrs?

And then, on your brag about your DD beating all those longtails....
"Thanks Steve...but let's keep things in perspective...I walked into a setup that was perfect for the dog I had on the lead. I don't think most folks expected to be running their dogs in a "pheasant pen", found pheasant the whole day on the course. In addition this is a short, tight walk (30-40 minutes) where the longtails couldn't really get up to speed, especially with all the scent. Most exciting dog of the day was a young pointer in the novice class...tons of power and clearly ready to steady up on his birds..showed a lot of class...circled that name on the program and put a big $ sign next to it for next year." You then went on to say - if that contest were run on the grasslands.... you wouldn't have fared as well. Horses for courses.

Whisker dog- head down to the ground tracking is a something one can teach any breed of dog to do. We have all seen dogs who just naturally work with a lower head, they follow foot scent, and usually bump way more birds than a dog with a higher head. Not a breeding candidate for me.

I look at the VDD/GNA website quite a bit, and I look at the stud dogs being offered. Of them all, there are a handful that are very nice looking dogs with very nice coats. (from what I can guess from a photo)

Too many of them lack coat, many of them barely have a whisker on their face, some have iffy looking coats, most have horrible looking rears, top lines and tail sets. Some are horses, some no chest and lack bone. There are quite a few light eyes.

Since they are listed on the stud dog page, they obviously have passed their tests. But are they wonderful examples of your breed? I hope not.

Going through the photos of all dogs who received a 12 in coat (only 7 of them) , with the exception of one dog, each of them could be fluffed- all carry fairly heavy furnishings on their chests, legs and heads. If a pro handler got their hands on them, brought them to a show, they would be groomed and back combed---they would look like a show dog. Would that make them horrible coats? Since they received the highest coat score, I'm supposing that is what the German judges consider the top of the line coats. Can't get any higher than a 12 can you?

There are scores on there as low as a 5/6 Form/Coat

I spoke with the judge following our show, and he told me that he was quite impressed with the quality of coat on most of the dogs. Some, he said, were poor, but overall, he liked what he felt. Just because a dog is groomed up, doesn't mean they have a poor coat. I agree that our breed should be shown looking like GWP's, not Giant Schnauzers! I saw little of that this year.

I will also agree that too many "show only people" have the opinion that they have to have excess coat in order to be competitive in the show ring. That's just silly, very incorrect thinking and detrimental to the breed.
But there is a dog under that hair, and the best coat (nor the worst coat) in the world cannot cover up structural problems. I'll take a poorer quality coat on a sound dog, then a great coat on an unsound dog any day of the week.

Personally, I don't enter a dog in the National Specialty thinking I am going to come home with the Best In Show dog. I enter my dogs so others can see them and evaluate them for themselves. I don't need a judge to tell me what I have, I know what I have. I know where they excel and what they lack. Winning there is nice for sure, but doesn't change what a dog is or isn't. Being beat by a dog with a horrible coat doesn't make any difference to me, it's just one persons opinion on one given day. It won't change my focus, won't change my goals and certainly doesn't change the dog.

There are a whole bunch of dogs in the field events that should/could be shown, but unfortunately their owners won't do it. That's up to them to make that decision. I will look at them at the trial and evaluate them for myself. I would hope they are looking at the other dogs there as well.

Very few DD's will ever test in your highest levels, very few GWP's will ever run in the National Championship. Why? Because the vast majority of these dogs are out hunting with their owners. Just as it should be. The numbers for our Championship fluctuate from year to year, and location to location. The dogs who do attend, who show from year to year that they are the dogs to beat will contribute much to the gene pool for years to come.

DD breeders do not have a lock on caring about these dogs, however they do all walk in lockstep when if comes to discussing THEIR dogs. If you read enough from DD breeders one would come to the conclusion that they never produce bad coats, poor temperaments, or dogs lacking in working ability. Hogwash! I've seen them, we've all seen them.
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Rhonda
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whiskerdog....

Rhonda here...

Now that you have put words in Jim's mouth (I bragged on his accomplishments and wanted to let you know that he trains dogs successfully for a number of different venues from horseback to foot handling, competition to hunting and guiding, upland to waterfowl) and you have misinterpreted things that he said, twisting them to try to serve your purpose....

Will you please address the 2 simple questions that I asked?

(Oh, BTW phenotypically means outward appearances.)

Rhonda
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Jon
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the DD program is doing it's job so well, why would anyone have 4 washouts in 6 yrs?


Simple, they were all good hunting dogs...they weren't breeding dogs...there's a difference...I went through far more GWPs than that for the same reason. You have done the same. The first one I returned was Barbwire...remember her...complete nut job..she went on to become a top producer...should have been spayed.

Quote:
You then went on to say - if that contest were run on the grasslands.... you wouldn't have fared as well. Horses for courses.


Exactly...I don't have 500 yd dogs..I'm a foot hunter. The breed wasn't created for it. That bitch is an exceptional bird finder and handler but she is a 200 yd dog...she will not run with plantation Pointers.

Quote:
Going through the photos of all dogs who received a 12 in coat


Yes..that number is rarely given...you would probably be VERY happy with a 10...we have loads of those. Here's one of many such young dogs...


here are the front legs of a "10" coat dog after 2 weeks in ND



Our scales are different.

Quote:
There are a whole bunch of dogs in the field events that should/could be shown, but unfortunately their owners won't do it. That's up to them to make that decision. I will look at them at the trial and evaluate them for myself.


So why have dog shows if the performance dogs (that's what the breed is about, right?) don't participate? Aren't you kind of admitting that the "beauty shows" are considered by the hard core performance guys to be a waste of time? You do have a separation. I was serious, stop all this sculpting and show the dogs "au naturelle" and you might bring this breed together more.

Quote:
The numbers for our Championship fluctuate from year to year, and location to location. The dogs who do attend, who show from year to year that they are the dogs to beat will contribute much to the gene pool for years to come


Not quite true...the number of people that see field trialing for the GWP as a goal is probably less than 2% of the breed(if that)...that's why the entry doesn't grow. You have no idea if these are the dogs to beat...you know nothing of the other 99%. By that narrow criteria, maybe they are. I have seen many good gun dog runs out of dogs that have NO FT background. I was braced with a black bitch at the Invitational years ago (that's that event for trashy houndy dogs) that could have easily run with anything you have seen.

Look, this has gotten way out of hand...you guys want to continue the "adoration" of "made" dogs of unknown working value, go for it. I still have a fondness for this breed and still find it frustrating to see "picture" painting" going on when we're talking about a hardcore working breed. You say the judge admired many of the coats...was that with or without the "additives"?? Bernee, its the coat on the legs, chest, stifle, neck and head that define the coat...not down the center of the back. There is no way these long feathers are anything but fluff and right where dogs need the most protection ("distinguishing feature of the breed").

I'm out of here...every time I hear you folks talk, I'm happier than ever I'm where I am (I'm sure you are too!!!).

Quote:
DD breeders do not have a lock on caring about these dogs, however they do all walk in lockstep when if comes to discussing THEIR dogs. If you read enough from DD breeders one would come to the conclusion that they never produce bad coats, poor temperaments, or dogs lacking in working ability. Hogwash! I've seen them, we've all seen them.


yeah we have some...but we don't give out prizes to them...dogs that snap at a judge or their own handlers, are barred from breeding...dogs with poor coats aren't given a Breed Registry #....and dogs with long feathers aren't desired. Dogs that whine and whimper and can't be still are noted as nervous, etc, etc, etc. Its different than you are used to.
Difficult to paint pictures...everything is a matter of record...you're dog has a 5 coat, the whole world knows when its published...boy that would have saved me a lot of travel in my GWP days.
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are scores on there as low as a 5/6 Form/Coat

Very few if we're being honest here. And such dogs are not widely used unless they are exceptional.

Quote:
Too many of them lack coat, many of them barely have a whisker on their face, some have iffy looking coats, most have horrible looking rears, top lines and tail sets.

And they are judged accordingly, for all to see.
Almost all HAVE Coat, some more or less than others. Some were not stripped prior to, some were, some neednt be.
The DD is a Euro Mutt with 4-5 breed influences. Its performance bred, and thats reflected with the variety, type, coat and ability.
You well know this, or should.

Quote:
We have all seen dogs who just naturally work with a lower head, they follow foot scent, and usually bump way more birds than a dog with a higher head.

Good Hunting dogs Know How to Use their nose, make game, track game, recover and handle birds. High and low head when necessary, is the ideal, ive found.


Quote:
1) Why didn't you use a picture from this year's National Field Trial winners? They were readily available.

I was lazy. I looked at Jims WWW, and saw the photos listed. I stopped there. If the later Nationals featured better dogs, have at it.
Im not that interested, really.

Quote:
2) What is it that you think makes the dogs in the photo that you presented (from my website of the 2005 GWPCA Derby) a poor representation?

Its Self evident, or should be. Mostly size, coat, color and Im sure cooperation, lack of versatile ability if Im being honest.

See the VDD Stud Page by comparison.
Look at Choke Wiredhaus.
See Wupperaue, Clou Wildgarten, Elk Wachtersbach dogs, Fine examples of the Breed and used to hunt-alot. Some are guide dogs or get daily hunt work..wish I was so lucky.
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/woechtersbach_3_elk.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/wiredhaus_choke.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/orion_enck.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/bandorfer-forst_foxi.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/wupperaue_3_lord.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/wasatch_cujo.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/studdogs/boeckenhagen_2_nic.htm

Post later photos of GWP Nationals, and Im happy to comment-good and bad. But sometimes the truth isnt polite.
Dont ask, if you fear the truth or being offended.

Im not here, nor are others, to knock anything, or anyone.
I just try to tell it straight, as I see it.

Id like the GWP to thrive, to be a great versatile and to continue to improve. Not be fractured by 'mad scientists' and those that dont really like the breed, the Way, Why and How it was designed, By the Founders. Splinted and division is never good.

I strongly considered A GWP and a Weim, but I was not interested in any I saw, up to including those in surrounding states. I drove 3 hours and got the nicest DD and hunting dog Ive ever owned.
The Navhda GWPs would interest me the most, were I looking.

Jim..
My Bitch is a Pudelpointer (PP) Motherline.
Her coat is a pretty good example of the breed, though not perfect, her coat score reflects that. Excellent coverage, and with stri comb twice a year, fine. Bushy eybrows, beard, little fuzzies on the head. So be it. The ducks, Geese, phez, deer, doves and quail dont seem to mind.
Works well in cold and ice. In heat and humidity...not so much
But then again, neither do I.



Quote:
I bragged on his accomplishments and wanted to let you know that he trains dogs successfully for a number of different venues from horseback to foot handling, competition to hunting and guiding, upland to waterfowl)

All well and good. I guide as well, did a youth hunt with 75 kids last weekend, along with a few other guides.
Ive titled in multiple venues, including UKC HRC as well as the VDD system. I hunt from Sept Dove through Feb Goose and in multiple states.

Wish I had more time & could hunt daily, but have 4 kids, wife, work and busy paying my illegal taxes to a Federal Reserve, that is neither Federal nor a reserve, but thats another topic...
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whiskerdog1 wrote:

What you said makes little sense.
Your Dogs Hunt AND track with a High Head? Thats Impossible. He is not working ground scent then, OR Working The TRACK of a moving bird.

When a dog gets scent and makes game, body posture changes and so does the Way in which the dog locates, relocates, tracks and pins game. A high head doesnt cut it. Id own a Setter if it did.


This video of a young DD in Spain is a Prime example and Illustrates my point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb0RkcF0HHU&feature=related


Jim..
This is a Euro Trash Czech DD Counterpart Fousek
Notice how staunch on Hare and easily whod & called off. Notice the Blood tracking later.
Nice dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsAn5iexQeM


TRACKING 1. the act or process of following something or someone

My dogs (and most of the DD's that I have hunted with) put their nose where the scent is, whether it is on the ground or in the air. There are no rule books in the wild bird world stating that tracking must be done by foot scent only. If you think the videos that you posted are PRIME examples of good dog work, then I understand why you are having such a hard time with this. I couldn't stand to watch much more than a minute of it.
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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My dogs (and most of the DD's that I have hunted with) put their nose where the scent is, whether it is on the ground or in the air. There are no rule books in the wild bird world stating that tracking must be done by foot scent only.


We agree Tony...a dog should do both depending on conditions. How many judges have I seen not understand what they were watching. You can teach a dog to track...you can't teach them to be calm...and that is often the reason young dogs don't do well...nervous feet. I see lots of pics of high headed dogs on the web, but when I hunt with Pointers, Setters, GSPs, etc they seem to point pretty much the way my dogs do.

So, which of these show dogs will be producing your next pup? Maybe Rhonda will be breeding her prize FT bitch to one of these "carefully crafted beauties". Be interesting to see how many of the big winners work themselves into serious working pedigrees. Boy, some of those trial dogs are getting real small...wow.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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If you think the videos that you posted are PRIME examples of good dog work, then I understand why you are having such a hard time with this.


I dont .
Some were in languages Im not even fluent in. One an off breed.
They were readily accessible and illustrated a dog working a running bird.
The first video, my rough Spanish translation from my public 'skool' education, is this is the 1st time this dog had ever hunted, in the field, or been tested in a NA test.

Dont make this complicated. I spent all of 5 minutes finding the vids to make a point, not to win points with the trial crowd here.
I appreciate dogs that do their job well. In hunting, this means making game, recovering, and relocating on Moving game.

Tracking Or Trailing,inevitably involves low head work.

Searching is a different kind of discipline/speciality.

Search and rescue dogs use it ie (S&R Geman Shepherds).
As Search Dogs, they air scent with high head, they dont foot track for this type of exercise. Covers a wide area, and tend to miss alot also, can work well on good scenting days with hot scent.
Pure Pointers and trial setters use this type of hunting method as well.

When one is looking for an item- lost kid days old or item, a Bloodhound (Foot tracker is used, Or Schutzhund type of foot tracking dog trained in that discipline.
When one looks for a crippled gamebird(esp Phez), a tracking Versatile Continental, is most desireable. Ive literally seen my dog recover dozens of birds others flat out missed or failed. I speak from experience. Im sure there are even better recovery hunting dogs than mine out there.
Foot tracking tends to be very successful in my experience with running game, wounded or not

Most Dogs can be taught to do either (to an extent thats almost acceptable), though some (Breeds/Lines) are true naturals at one or the other and excel at it.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 11/18/09, 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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You are barbaric.

Some Linebackers I played against in college said the same.
Barry Sanders & Okie State boys told me I was dirty. I dont care. That was then.


Quote:
You are a bad example of an outdoorsman.

Not sure why? You dont know me or have ever hunted with me.
I hunt hard, work to kill efficiently, painlessly, and humanely and thats why I won a decent hunting dog.
We dont give up on cripples, and we work to help others get theirs.
Ive hunted, trapped, and enjoyed the outdoors for 30 years.
From Elk in Idaho to North Carolina Bear and Boar behind hounds, grouse woods of Appalacha, and Ditches & cornfields of Ohio, Ive worn out some boot leather.


Quote:
I can't believe that you are a teacher.

Im not unless you include being a father and hackdog trainer.
Im actually a father of 4. And devoted husband.
My children are home schooled, can recite the Rosary in Latin, read the Bible Nightly and are starting to goose and squirrel hunt, least my 6 & 8 year old.

Quote:
You have no business owning a GWP or chatting on a GWP forum or belonging to a group for GWPs.


Right out of the Communist Saul Alinsky's Playbook.
I will nominate you for Obama's GWP Czar.
We were Sort of a free country, once.
Until folks like Jim decided to Trust our Government officials & Banksters, send your kids to illegal wars for their benefit, and allow them to implement the Judeo-Masonic Protocols of the Communist Manifesto & Protocols of Zion in every element of our society.


Quote:
We don't want your type.

Likewise, except Im not going anywhere.
I like hunting dogs, bred to strict standards, with Euro Breed Club Parent Registry, and with Quality Control mechanisms in place.
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Last edited by whiskerdog1 on 11/18/09, 4:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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