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Breeding-Quotes by Max Stephanitz

 
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 01/12/09, 10:44 am    Post subject: Breeding-Quotes by Max Stephanitz Reply with quote

PP 380-381.

'Breeding in quantities must always become a curse to the breeder, because it leads him along the wrong path and deprives him of all real joy in his breeding.
Finally, it leads - and this is a further and very real danger for breeder and for the race - to breeding for business considerations only. It follows from the name, that this has nothing more to do with the dog-lover, or with the utility of the dog-race, and not even with Sport, which indeed has only been too often advanced as a cloak for such practices.

The Breeder on a smale scale, one who works with 1-2 bitches, is the most suitable breeder for service dogs, because he can care for his breeding animals & their progeny to such an extent that he can produce sound animals that can be trained.

The internationalism of the Big Bank Balance has been the downfall of the Shepherd dog.


"The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs....
In order to have any chances of success at Exhibitions, breeding must be effected on a large scale; which can only be done in a regular Kennel. But breeding on a large scale and in a Kennel is the ruin of all sound shepherd dog breeding.

I have already spoken at length of the curse of kennel-keeping.
Kennel breeding, however, doubles and multiples the evil, and irrevocably spoils all which comes under its influence. We shall hear more about this in what follows.
A large number of dogs can only be kept in a Kennel, but in so doing we heap up injury upon injury, because a large collection of shepherd dogs is a contradiction in terms. It is not possible to breed and keep shepherd dogs in herds, because they only become wild and deteriorate.

The shepherd dog will only be taken as a personality; his master must be able to busy himself with him; especially when he is dealing with a young dog; and that is only possible with one or at the most a very few, but never more.

When it comes to breeding for business - which is never effected by dealers, at least not by official dealers -, the dog is only a business commodity and nothing more, and is bred and treated as such. There again, we encounter another danger for the race. The dog is no longer bred from the point of view of his services to the race, but only because he has a certain market value. In other words, the direction of the breed is influenced no longer by the experts, but by the buyers.

The buyer, however, is mostly an unsuspecting novice, or else one who knows or cares nothing for the weal or woe of the race as yet. He knows nothing of racial type, nothing of the value of aptitude for work, he often only has an eye for appearances and wishes his dog to be imposing and remarkable, and sometimes even a ruffling swashbuckler.

Dog-breeding must be the work of a dog lover, and cannot be a profession, as is the case with other animals, and a means of acquiring bread and butter. If it once becomes that, then it will be dog-dealing that has nothing more to do with serious dog breeding, but on the other hand, too often has to do with the law.

The work of breeding service dogs must, first and foremost, be the work of dog lovers... The dog lover in his breeding aspires after no material and external advantage.
He allows himself to be contented with the fact that association with noble, beautiful and gifted creatures, the observation of the phenomena of their lives, and the examination of all that happens in their breedings afford him a whole cycle of pure joys and contentment, and allow him to penetrate further into the secrets and the mysteries of Nature.

These joys will repay him, (who indulges his fancy without self-seeking,) for all the sacrifices in money, time and trouble, and even for all failures and disillusions."

-Max V Stefanitz, 1925, Founder of the GSD
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Jon
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PostPosted: 01/12/09, 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a bunch of liberal bull^&%$ !!!!! sorry .... but if you ask me I'll tell you how I really feel.

If this were the standard, where would the Elhew Pointer be today?....nowhere!!! There is a place for serious people regardless of how many puppies they breed. By breeding less, all you do is know less....concentrate traits less. By this definition, the breeder who has a litter every five years is better than the one that has 2/year. Meaningless discussion....maybe it has validity for the GS but certainly not for many other breeds.

The real problem IS the many pet lovers....not the student of the breed...regardless of how many dogs they have.

Hugo Bremauer bred 100 litters in 30 years, sometimes 4 litters/year and left a legacy of genetic contribution to the DD that no one else will ever reach. He didn't do it by breeding less...he did it by good selection, a cadre of hunters/handlers that followed through with his dogs and knowing where he wanted to go.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 01/12/09, 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell us how you really feel Jon!

This 'liberal' Created the Greatest Working dog ever known to man.
I think his philosophy was similar to the VDD, terms of goals, dangers, pitfalls, and results oriented.

Breeder with '1-2 Bitches as the Ideal.'
What is wrong with this, Jon?

And in effect, a Club, structured similarly to the VDD
That is What I take out of Maxs' Message
1-2 as the ideal, I dont think 3-4 is excessive in competent hands, operative word COMPETENT, like a Hugo Bremauer of V. Richtof, which had perhaps 3-4 litters.

Stephanitz created, like it or not, the Greatest Working Dog the world has ever seen, and the standard from which all others are compared.
He rolls in his grave at what the conformation, agility folks have done to his creation.

Elhew Pointers..A Specialist dog. Theyve contributed Nothing towards European Working dogs. Bred to win trials. Ive no use for them.
Similar to a Greyhound, as a specialist.
I dont think the same Breeding logic would apply to certain specialists in comparison to Real Versatiles or Working Breeds, who are tasked with working cooperatively with owner/hunter.

I dont want or need an Elhew Pointer. No thanks.
Are you giving your blessing to Puppy Mills here?! Say it aint so.. Smile

Where Am I off base?
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Last edited by whiskerdog1 on 01/13/09, 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: 01/12/09, 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Take this trouble for me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." -Max


The breeding of Shepherd Dogs is the breeding of Working Dogs, and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce Shepherd Dogs.
Captain Max von Stephanitz
Founder of the Verein Fur
Deutsche Schaferhunde, SV.
December 30, 1864 - April 22, 1936
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Jon
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PostPosted: 01/13/09, 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good word....you've lost it.

Numbers don't make puppy mills....stupidity does. You don't have to like the Elhew Pointer but you DO need to respect excellence and the work that Wehle did to get there.

I notice you didn't respond to the 100 litters Bremauer had. Did he run a puppy mill?

You need to get a grip.
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PostPosted: 01/14/09, 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon

Numbers DO Make Puppy Mills to a large extent.
Time is a commodity and there is a threshhold of quality suffering due to quantity, dictated by the Dollar.

The owner that owns 5-15 Bitches simply cannot assess those dogs, work closely with them, live with them & make them part of his household, know their personalities, strengths/weaknesses,.... like the SMALL Breeder, that has 1,2,3 Bitches & Can better evaluate stock.

Bremauer of the Richtof Kennel turned out 100 litters in 30 years
Thats hardly qualifies as a 'Mill'

Thats 3.3 litters per year, which would be EXACTLY the KIND of Breeder that Max V Stephanitz Admired, Applauded & Thought of as the Ideal..

I think youre just being difficult.

Max stresses of Breeding FOR Working dogs, its limitations & great responsibilities..
HE Created the Working GSD. The Finest ever created..That dog COULD work. Used the World over.

Max Rolls in his grave Over what has taken place with his roachback, Showline GSD titling in 'Midnight trials'..(judges Paid off to hand out titles-lots of $$ in Breeding Conformation dogs masquerading as Working dogs)
They cant jump a scaled wall in days of old, herd all day, assist their Police handler, or protect their family as designed.

Im Not Sure Wehle 'Bettered' the breed.
For trialing perhaps.....Wehle's Brood Matron Was a Scottish Imported Grouse Hunting Moor dog by the way, & He was collecting $2500 for an Elhew Stud. FYI
I'd likely opt for a JGHV Euro Bred/Registered EP over one of Wehles trial dogs.

Which statement precisely Offended you regarding Stephanitz?
Quote:

The Breeder on a smale scale, one who works with 1-2 bitches, is the most suitable breeder for service dogs, because he can care for his breeding animals & their progeny to such an extent that he can produce sound animals that can be trained.

The internationalism of the Big Bank Balance has been the downfall of the Shepherd dog.

"The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs....
In order to have any chances of success at Exhibitions, breeding must be effected on a large scale; which can only be done in a regular Kennel. But breeding on a large scale and in a Kennel is the ruin of all sound shepherd dog breeding.

I have already spoken at length of the curse of kennel-keeping.
Kennel breeding, however, doubles and multiples the evil, and irrevocably spoils all which comes under its influence. We shall hear more about this in what follows.

Seems logical to me..
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Last edited by whiskerdog1 on 01/15/09, 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: 01/14/09, 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Numbers don't define anything...its what you do with the dogs you breed.

Care for animals doesn't make them trainable...genetics does.

Look, I also work with just a few dogs at a time, but I'm not going to condemn the guy that breeds 4-5 bitches/year. I'm first going to see what he's producing....that's all I'm saying.

BTW, the discussion was never about anyone with 5-15 bitches. We're splitting hairs here on numbers. I still say its knowledge and experience that makes dogs and whether that is 1 litter/year or 5 litters/year, it will work.

Personally, I haven't got enough time for that many puppies.

My real concern is how much folks really know about the dogs they breed.
If you haven't layed hands on a stud dog, seen him work, interact with other dogs, people, etc......do you really know? Titles and scores don'e make dogs and they shouldn't be used as THE measure of a dog.
So how responsible is a "responsible" breeder that sends their dog across the country to a stud dog about which they know little beyond the numbers? I think its a decent question....
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PostPosted: 01/15/09, 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont disagree with you... that Much Smile

We arent that far apart, it seems.

My personal experience is this...Ive had 3 dogs at one time, most Ive ever had. Down to one, soon to be 2.

Any more than that, I dont think I could properly work, train, & assess their talent, to develop them to their full potential.

I think that was the point of this Breed Founder...And I agree with that

Ironically enough, the GSD of Old, is practically no more.
Maxs' Nightmare has come to pass.

The GSD Being is Replaced everywhere by the Belgian Malinois & Dutch Shepherd, for their better health & Working ability

Departments look for return on investment, cost, & efficiency in numbers
Thats why the GSD is no more

Even in Germany, the K9 Choice is the Belgain Malinois now
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PostPosted: 01/26/09, 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

This is Max Stephanitz Nightmare come true..
A Winning GSD in England.
Notice the Roach back. Dog can hardly walk right. I owned a dysplastic GSD that trotted as well.
I bet he would command more money than all of our DDs put together..

$50,0000-$100,000 is not unheard of for a Sieger Winner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU1IZyUv6Yk&eurl=http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1791/pedigree-dogs-exposed-filmmaker-releases-extended-footage-of-german-shepherds/&feature=player_embedded
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