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German Accomplishments
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try again
This is a sampling, & duck is simply a gunfire test.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7409009358440856182&hl=en
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kimmax/1617810026/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kimmax/1616961025/in/photostream/

You can Browse top right, to see More Hegewald photos..
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whiskerdog1 wrote:
Almost Impossible..

Whats 'BS'?

The good news, is that if your story is true, (I doubt that it is)...is that dog is removed from the breeding gene pool if it Refuses ANY retrieve.
The command Fetch means Fetch. Its Paramount in importance.
Breed stock must perform 3-4 retrieves of Feather & Fur. From 40-400 meters.


This is the purpose, one anyway, of testing breeding stock
It was done with all working breeds & sporting breeds.

So too might dogs who fail retrieves, poor hips, are overly aggressive
Back to your point, Standard breed testing wasnt just Germans but Brits, French & Almost all Europeans.

All breed founders HAD Breeding & testing Standards. Everywhere but here.


Heres a short video of what one might see at a Breed Test.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7409009358440856182&hl=en

One US breeder & some water shots.
http://www.vomwasatch.com/gallery.html


This dog was not removed from any breeding program. It was already certified to breed..........it was merely trying to show how great the VDD breeding system was at a NAVHDA training day. It was laughable.......I will stick with my AKC GWPs thank you very much. Laughing Laughing It was also aggressive toward the guy's wife....her words.


Last edited by Repoman on 07/07/08, 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can a dog refuse a command? Sure
Can a dog refuse a command in the field? Sure
Can a dog refuse a command at a test? Sure
Can a dog refuse a command at a training day? Sure
Can a Finished dog refuse a Command? Sure


Im the 1st to concede that not every dog from the VDD is a great dog.
The idea is to create consistency & perpetuate the standard. Breed testing does this. Every Breed founder has had a standard & Breed test for that standard.

In this case, which I find hard to believe & think you have an agenda.. Ill state this.
To breed certify ones dog, you almost Have to FF

How this dog couldve been breed certified & not obeyed a FETCH command, is beyond me.
Had it happened at a test, this dog wouldve failed. PERIOD. It could test once more.

I cant comment beyond that, I didnt witness it.
But I know that at every Breed test there are at least 3-4 retrieves, distances of 40-400 meters. If there are holes in ones training, it is very likely to appear.
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No!!! wrong answer....the dog would not pursue live crippled game. End of story.....it was a dud.

It has nothing to do with refusing commands.....it is a desire issue.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repo...I dont know the particulars. I Dont really care to. Id didnt breed him.
My DD is UKC HRC titled, from 3 generations of the 6 DD/GWPs in the history of HRC. She gets alot of duck duty. Ive nothing to prove. I dont breed. I dont train professionally but as a love.

This dog refuses a retrieve on live game.
Dud?
I dont know.
Refusal of a command? Yes indeed.
Training issue? Sure sounds like

That dog at some point, to breed certed, had Competently & successfully Demonstrated:
1. a Blind (Duck) retrieve
2. a 10+ minute Navhda UT search
3. a 400 meter duck retrieve
4. a 300 meter rabbit retrieve.

What happened after that is anyones guess. Too much force in training for VDD Utility & VGP after breed certing? Ive seen it happen.
Other issues? Fox work? Retreive work? Electricity?
Is the owner Competent?
What were the other littermates' Scores? Issues?

All of this can be tracked....
As suspected, you have an agenda.
You are of the.... Im AmeermiKan By God, & Ill breed my Dawgs any damn way I please, type.

And Thats fine
As with everything else, (including our Constitution), we are our own worst enemy.
The Breed founders, & certainly the US Founding Fathers, would be ashamed of us.

I could work that dog. Send him to me, Have the owner contact me or send me video.
The VDD needs more competent Handlers than dogs at this point.
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PostPosted: 06/27/08, 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blah,blah, blah....the dog would not pursue live game right in front of it....you are just an excuse bag. Rolling Eyes
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 06/28/08, 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was the dog given a FETCH Command?
If yes, then it refused a command

You make this harder than it is,
You overgeneralize, overstate the problem & Understate the obvious

Its Simple stuff.
Command=Comply/ Obey or Disobey

In training for the upcoming UT VGP, after Breed cert, there can be issues, especially with FF (fox work etc).
I dealt with it right up unto HZP Breed test as dog was younger.

I prefer my dog not retrieve unless given a Fetch command, to be solid at the line & in the blind at all times.
I can run Triples & a Blind with her. I can call her off of a retrieve if need be and have to send for a cripple or if shes in danger.

Btw-How many pups you putting out Repoman?
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PostPosted: 06/28/08, 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More excuses...... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: 07/02/08, 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually why does anyone care about what a dog did in a german test? I live in the USA. It seems an incredible waste of money and nothing but an ego trip for anyone to haul any kind of mutt across the ocean to have it "tested", to some none american hunting standard. It is just another example of some people's vanity. Rolling Eyes
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 07/02/08, 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh....because you bought it up, Mr Obvious

We test because we believe that the testing is of value
We do it because we also believe that the breed founders knew what they were doing
We test because we SEE that the testing is working and that there is alot of consistency in the dogs, and that hunting ability, temperment, hips, health etc are not compromised
We test, not because we like spending several hundred dollars, leaving our wives & families, taking a weekend off..beating brush to find Jack rabbits or cottontails to track or shiver in freezing rain to watch a dog do a duch search for 15 minutes, or a 300 meter drag..
We do it FOR the BREED
And we dont travel to Germany, not all of us anyway, very few really.. we test here. I guess you arent informed? My arent we presumptuous?


Look at the German Shepherd for instance..poor hips, roach back, can hardly trot around a show ring. Definately cant work, cant bite, cant protect. CRAP in a word. Max Vom Stefanitz is turning in his grave

Why do US breeders think they can do it the 'AmeeriKan' way and better?
Every dog thats become popular is ruined...from the Airedale to the German Shepherd, Dobe, Rott, to the Irish setter & Weimaraner.
WIth enough time, the GWP will go in the same direction.
Or resigned to become A specialist to run against setters, Brits & pointers
Its inevitable
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PostPosted: 07/02/08, 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whiskerdog1 wrote:
Blah,blah,blah..........
We do it FOR the BREED
Blah,blah,blah........


The biggest lie in the dog world.......

And you talk about being presumptive?

Vanity,conceit, and ego.....that is all.

We do it for the breed....hahahahaha. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 07/03/08, 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest truth in the dog world

DD owners wish to continue the tradition & pass on to others that which we have inherited.... Excellent, stable, hunting machines.

I believe in the German system, whether its schutzhund (Breed cert) for working breeds or JGHV for Sporting versatile breeds

If I bred GWPs, Id promote NAVHDA
Personally I tested to fulfill my promise to the breeder.
My only vannity, was/is doing UKC HRC just to show up some Lab guys.
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PostPosted: 07/03/08, 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whiskerdog1 wrote:

My only vannity, was/is doing UKC HRC just to show up some Lab guys.


Well that isn't tough.....showing up labs and their misinformed owners. They are such a limited ability dog. Like retrieving a duck is such a big deal. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 07/03/08, 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never say labs are limited ability..many arent
Ive worked with some nice ones

Most US trial Labs imo are bred way too hot, I dont care for them
Im partial to the British Labs or stable US counterparts which are becoming rare

HRC used to be affiliated with NAHRA & did a Cripple test, they no longer do this. There was a test while back-windy cold day.
26 Finished dogs ran, 2 passed in the cripple portion. All 24 Labs just swam in circles.
1 dog that passed was my dogs grandsire.
HRC is now basically a Training test...blinds, marks, handles, but it is still a challenging test.

My DD marks extremely well & is very fast to her marks
This surprises alot of the conventioal lab guys.
Last 3 tests Ive run, Ive receieved compliments from the test directors, that in itself is rewarding
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