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Coat color change
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now Janet, surely you jest! Even I am giggling, and those who know me don't think of me as the giggling type.

Just who is this BW/LW FC? Name names. If this dog is going to be listed as a FC his/her name will not be secret for very long. So give it up.

Secret agenda? Me? Oh gezzzzzzzzz, give me a break. I've tried to be nice, I've tried to give you every single oppportunity to set the record straight.

You will not, and probably never will. I have nothing to hide. I have no black and white dogs, have never bred to a black and white dog and unless and untill I find an outstanding black and white that is superb in both the conformation end of things, and the field end of things, probably never will. But, if I do find that dog, I resersve the right to breed to it to further the skills and better the GWP breed.

You see, Janet, I am not color blind when it comes to the GWP. I hated White dogs back when I began. But then I got a wonderful white dog, and he made me change my tune. That dog has done more than most dogs of the breed, white or not. Good or bad, I will not and cannot toss a great dog from the breeding pool if it will benefit the breed for the future.

Undermine the truths? I have explained to you numerous times "why" things were done as they were. They are the truth. No undermining here. It's certainly up to you to believe me or not, but I would think with your vast knowledge you would have done your homework to know "which side of the fence I am sitting on". No, you have not done that, you have decided that since I am not inclined to accept your version of "the truth" I must be in the enemy camp. WRONG!!

However, the truth is the truth, no matter with side of the fence you decide to be on!

It'a nonsense like this, people who just shout out "stuff" when they have no facts to back up their bull that really tears things apart.

Janet, go do your own homework beforre you begin to point the finger at anyone else.

Bernee Brawn
Justa GWP's
just notice who has signed their name here. And I don't have a website,nor a video I wish to promote
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Tony
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bernee,

You've seen the FC that I'm talking about, he was staked out at the Nationals last year between the water tank and the starting line. I'm not sure if this is the FC that Janet is refering to, but I did see her at the trial that day.
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Jon P
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hell with Susan Lucci!! This is better than the soaps!! How will I sleep til tomorrow's episode??
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee Whiz Tony and everyone else. If the dog is black give us the name. There is nothing wrong with a black FC. In fact, I welcome it.

The only dog I know of that is field trialing and could be close is the Duffins- Obsydian Von Duffin. She is black and white. Nothing to hide there.

If there was another one, and that dog finished... tell the darn name! Nothing is illegal, black and white dogs can compete in ANY performance event!!!!!!

If a dog finished, they should be proud of it.... who owns the dog? Who is the dog?

Nebraska was a year ago, I have slept since then!
Bernee
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birddog
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a pity you've chosen to make this a 'personal' issue - doing so generally shows lack of a credible argument. I think it's easy for the readers to determine just what's going on. Let's stick to the issue! You can continue to ramble on at will trying to sound important if you so choose, but the fact remains that the AKC GWP breed, as a whole, would be better served if we stick to the issue.
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Tony
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birddog,

How about if we stick to the TRUTH Exclamation Unfortunately we haven't seen much of it in any of your post.




Bernee,

The FC is liver & white, very dark liver with a dark brown nose and dark brown eyes.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony, thats a natter of opinion. The dog that I looked at was B/W. If you want to call the color very dark liver then that is the way you see it. Maybe if he is put in the show ring the real color will be judged. Several others also called him Black. I even beleive his name is Black Jack. That one don't qoute me on. Give me a few days and I will look it up in the Wire News. Don't want to give out any false truths.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is how rumors get started.
Apparently the dog Birddog is speaking about is FC Big Oaks Black Jack OKK. This dog is a liver and white, sire and dam, 4 grandparents are liver and white.

Goes back to Marie Laveau von Stueben, a solid liver bitch and Cascade Steamer, a liver roan male.

To date, there are no BW AKC field champion German Wirehaired Pointers. NONE! IF anyone is aware of any, please correct me and provide us with names. Thanks.

When I see stuff posted here that are simply untrue statements I will come forth and set the record straight.

Ok, now lets have the pedigrees of the liver and white dogs bred to liver and white dogs that are producing black and white puppies. Give us the TRUTH! After all, that is what you are asking from the rest of us. Afterall, this is what we are talking about isn't it?

Bernee Brawn
Justa GWp's
New Hope, PA
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birddog
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bernee, in my post I stated he may be reg. L/W. Take off the brown tinted glasses and he is BLACK just like his name!
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Last edited by birddog on 08/27/03, 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tony
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! We are talking about the same dog! I've put my hands on this dog, scouted him in field trials, and seen at least 2 litters of his puppies, and I can assure you that this dog is liver and white.

If it wasn't so late, I'd give Vern a call. I'm sure that he would get a kick out of all of this. Laughing

I was always under the impression that the dark liver color was a desirable trait in the GWP. Was I wrong Question
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, I was going to back out gracefully from this absurd discussion but I can't.

If the sire is liver, and the dam is liver, and the grandparents are liver, the dog cannot be black.

Now, if you think this dog is black, and he has a fake registration, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and report it to the AKC.

How totally wild this has become. I think the owner would certainly be interested to hear how his dog is apparently a fake. I think the breeder, John Schoonover would be interested as well.

I still can't figure out what you are after. Now you are making accusations against club members and their dogs. Interesting.
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Chinchy
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own 4 GWP`s and all 4 are the DREADED black`s, Im really proud of their LOOK`s & GREAT HUNTING ABILITIES. All are real close German bred, and I`m glad they are. Birddog you jump from 1 absurd reason to the next why the black`s should not be allowed, and I like most of the others can`t find any of your statement creditable!! The black`s cause aggression, the black`s are pointer crosses,now we have black`s born of 2 liver parent`s, futher tainting the perfect GWP gene pool. You have went to great lenghts to stir the pot, but have never answered if you are going to be there to address this issue, after being asked by several people on this fourm!! By the way the first GWP I owned was a very dark liver& white that some thought looked almost black, but I can assure you there were not Black`s in his pedigree any where!
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birddog
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PostPosted: 08/27/03, 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know Bernee, You just might have the answer there. Just maybe that is the answer to all this. If AKC did go to inspect and DNA we possibly could get to the bottom of this. I see the dog as black even told this to his owner. Others also have mentioned the color is black. You have not seen the dog and yet you voice such a strong opinion. Maybe if you took a closeer look you would be surprized. One other thing. It is you and Tony who have mentioned MEMBERS NAMES. Not me!
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Tony
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PostPosted: 08/28/03, 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

birddog wrote:
It is you and Tony who have mentioned MEMBERS NAMES. Not me!


We've also mentioned the TRUTH! Not you! Rolling Eyes

At least 100 GWPCA members saw Jack at the Nationals last year, he was staked out between the club house and the starting line for 2-3 days. I don't recall anyone refering to him as black.

If Bernee has a strong opinion, it's because she knows the pedigree and realizes that the dog can not be black.
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cheerio
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PostPosted: 08/28/03, 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears to me that this discussion does not lead to anything constructive and certainly has lost its interest for the majority of the members of this board. Is this really the picture we want to show the new person who stumble on this board for the first time? Perhaps it is time to continue the discussion privately between yourselves...

I do realize that I am not one of the mediators of this board, but I though I would voice my opinion. What is it that you say Sheri:
"Educate and Inform. If you can't offer information, offer encouragements. And above all, have fun. It's a hobby after all!"
What a great advice...
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