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Coat color change
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/07/03, 3:22 pm    Post subject: Coat color change Reply with quote

For those of you who are as unaware as I was, on October 8, 2000, at the GWP Nationals, and then printed in the Wire-News (issue Nationals 2000),
the Board stated: "The board also had been asked by AKC to recommend colors of the breed that appear on the individual registration. The board recommended that the color brown and white not appear. Only the colors liver and white, liver. And under acceptable, BLACK AND WHITE. Under markings will appear, ticked, roaned and spotted. A letter has been sent to AKC with these recommendations". The letter in question and sent to AKC was dated 2-22-01. Not knowing for certain if, indeed, AKC did request input regarding 'color' or if the Board took it upon itself to authorize AKC to change the 'color' standard, black and white is now acceptable since the 2/22/01 letter. The 'color of black' has been a passionate issue over the years. Votes have been taken regarding putting 'black' into the standard and have always been voted down. The issue now is: Did the Board have the authority according to our By-Laws to authorize this change WITHOUT THE FULL SUPPORT AND VOTE OF THE FULL MEMBERSHIP? I am asking the new President, Mark Sargent, to take the lead and re-address this matter by holding a full membership vote to see if, in fact, this is the choice of the membership. If 'black' is voted down, the standard as it reads now should be changed to read, "any black in the coat to be a diaqualfication". If the 'black' vote passes as an accepted color, then the standard should read, "to compete in any AKC sanctioned event regardless of AKC show or field competion; there should be no differentiation".
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Keith
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PostPosted: 05/07/03, 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope they will accept the black and white. I have owned solid livers, liver and white and black and white. I like all these colors but I do find the black and white very striking.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/07/03, 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happen to have a copy of the German Wirehaired Pointer Club of America Constitution and By-laws as received as an insertion with the Fall 2002 Wire-News. Under Article VIII Amendments; Section 3, it reads as follows:

The Breed Standard may be amended only in accordance with the following procedures: Any proposal to amend the Breed Standard received by the Secretary shall be reviewed by a Breed Standard committee appointed by the Board of Directors. The Breed Standard Committee shall report its recommendations on such proposal(s) to the Officers and Board of Directors, which group shall also review the proposal(s) and report its recommendations to the membership. A FAVORABLE VOTE OF 2/3 OF THE RESPONDING MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING SHALL RE REQUIRED TO EFFECT ANY SUCH AMENDMENT TO THE STANDARD OF THE BREED. Voting shall be conducted in accordance with the procedures used to amend the Constitution and By-laws (Article VIII; Section 2).

I question whether the By-laws have been violated on the"black issue".
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 05/08/03, 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe you may be referring to the puppy registration papers where the color of the puppy is being questioned.

On every application it gives you a list of colors you may choose, and then a particular marking that applies to each breed.

There has always been a space on the applications for "other".... and the puppy owner has filled in whatever they chose. You would be surprised at some of the colors owners have registered their dogs as.

Since Black and White is a color that this breed comes in,it is a perfectly acceptable color for the registration papers.

Remember, in the standard, black is not a DQ. White Boxers are not something those breeders want, but are registrable, White German Shepards as well, but by allowing owners to register them with the proper color, at least the breed clubs can track the numbers born and registered.

I don't think the board did anything wrong, in fact, instead of trying to sweep something under the rug, they decided to bring it out in the open and give future breeders a way to track colors.

Bernee Brawn
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/08/03, 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what you mean - the matter hasn't been too open when only those few making the decision know about the details. Seems to me the issue with all details should have been one for the entire membership. Further, if it isn't an issue being 'hushed' through, then there shouldn't be any problem with bringing the matter before the full membership for a vote.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AKC contacted every Parent club for input on the puppy registration papers. Each club was asked to review the colors and to make changes they thought would make the registration process easier for the puppy owner, while at the same time making sure the information was correct.

This happened 3 years ago... it was printed in the club newsletter for all to see and comment on if they wanted to. In those 3 years, I doubt they got one reply or comment. Why didn't you ask these questions then?

Keep in mind, this only concerns the registration papers, not the breed standard. Nothing there has changed at this time. The board cannot change the standard.

Apparently according to the minutes of the Board meeting printed in the last Wire News, there will be a standards committe put together to review the breed standard. This committee will be looking for input from the members, and it's up to the members to reply. Once the standard is changed (or not changed) it cannot be revisited for many many years. Get involved if you have the interest, don't sit back and think you can complain down the road.


I encourage all of you who are members to actually read the Wire News, (not just look at the photos) ask questions when something happens you don't understand. But it has to be timely.

In short, I don't think there was any conspiracy..... nor were any rules broken by the BOD. And it wasn't "hush hush" since it was printed in black and white (no pun intended) for all to see! Every member had the oppportunity to comment. They just chose not to do so.

Bernee Brawn
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact of the matter is that, indeed, there IS support against the action the board took to add a color to the AKC registration process without a vote from the full membership. To make mere mention of this significant issue in the newsletter rather than truly alert the membership to possible changes on this very passionate issue is an attempted 'hush, hush' move. As for reading newsletters, you are right to some extent; however, in previous newsletters it had always been stated that the issue of 'black' would be discussed and put before the full membership for real input and a vote. For the record, a request has been made to put this issue of 'black' on the agenda for the 2003 Annual Meeting. Fortunately, nothing is set in stone. After a vote on the issue by the full membership: If 'black' and 'black and white' is voted down, the standard should be changed to read: "Any black in the coat is a disqualification", and if the color 'black' or 'black and white' vote passes, the standard should be changed to read; "Able to compete in any AKC sanctioned event regardless of AKC show or field competetion"; there should be no differentiation". Seems very simple - in my opinion, any change to the breed (standard) including color should encompass the breed as a whole; should not be 'field this' and 'show that', etc. According to our GWPCA By-laws, it is our right as a membership to be the deciding factor on this issue through the voting process. To have the board members make this decision on their own seems unconstitutional.
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Last edited by birddog on 05/09/03, 8:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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Deb Finstad
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DualGWP -

What is the procedure when the club decides to review the standard? How do you know who the committee is, how are they selected, and how do you voice your opinion? Once the committee has made suggested changes do all members get to vote on the revision? Is this something that is done on a regular basis or is there some momentum for change instigating it? If this is true - why? I did read this in the Wirenews but haven't found anyone who seems to know anything about it - I thought maybe I had misunderstood what the meeting minutes seemed to be saying.

Thanks,
Deb
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admin
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Seems very simple - in my opinion, any change to the breed (standard) including color should encompass the breed as a whole; should not be 'field this' and 'show that', etc.



Birddog:
So by your statement, if black and white were to be disqualified in the standard, black and white dogs would be disqualified from field events as well as conformation events, correct?


.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harsh as this reality seems, it is one of the major issues that makes this discussion so passionate. That is why is it so very important that ALL members take advantage of any opportunity to vote on the matter - and, yes, 'black' should be 'in' or 'out' for the breed as a whole.
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things,
1st... the standard cannot repeat CANNOT be changed by a simple vote of the membership at the annual meeting. If you will take the time to read the constitution and by laws you will see there is a process set in place to make "any" change to the standard of the breed. So, it's not as simple as putting the issue on the agenda for the annual meeting.

2nd. AKC will never allow any breed club to DQ any dog from any sort of performance event due to a DQ in the breed standard.
Even if Black and white were made a DQ in the standard, there will be nothing to stop people from entering that dog in any show, trial, test etc. It's up to the judge in the show ring to remove the dog from competition, because the dogs are being judged against the standard and how closely they fit it. However, in any performance event, it is the dogs performance that is judged, not the dogs adherance to it's breed standard.

Be careful of what you wish for....

Deb, I would assume that once a committee is in place their names will be announced in the Wire News. Once they get their "changes" agreed upon amongst themselves it should be presented to the membership for discussion. Then, if all is agreed upon it will be put to the entire membership for a vote. 2/3 of the membership must approve any change. It gets tricky, and it won't happen overnight. The last time the standard was opened to review I believe it took 2 -3 years to get it to be a done deal.

When the names are announced for the committee you could ask to be kept apprised of anything on the table.

Hope that makes the muddy water a bit clearer.
Bernee
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Deb Finstad
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bernee! You have made things much clearer as to the process involved.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is where the integrity of the individual should take over. To enter a competition when a dog is DQ before it takes to the field or enters the show ring, is as smart as one butting their head against the wall. I don't think falling back to the now accepted Liver and white color would hurt to many. The only one hurt would be the one who has nothing better to offer than the DQ black.
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birddog
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bernee, I have just received an email stating Barb Tucker is to chair the review committee. How and by who, was she and the others selected to serve on the review committee?
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 05/09/03, 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the bylaws....
Article VIII Section 3A.... Any proposal to amend the Breed Standard received by the Secretary shall be reviewed by a Breed Standard committee apointed by the board of directors.

Section 3 B The Breed Standard committee shall report it's recommendations on such proposals to the board of directors and officers, which group shall also review the porposals and report it's recommendations to the membership.

Section 3 C -A favorable vote of 2/3 of the responding members in good standing shall be required to effect any such amendment to the standard of the breed. Voting shall be conducted in accordance with the procedures used to amend the constitution and by laws.

Section 4- No amendement to the constitution, by laws or breed standard shall become effective until it has been approved by the Board of Directors of the American Kennel Club.
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