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Soft Point Vs JHP or Hollow Point?

 
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 12/11/08, 10:16 pm    Post subject: Soft Point Vs JHP or Hollow Point? Reply with quote

Anyone know the difference?
What is more appropriate for self defense?

I cannot believe the ballistics achieved from this ammo manufacturer in the Czech Republic-Sellier & Bellot.
Ive shot their 7.62 x 39 & 9x19 (9mm) ammo and it is excellent, if just a touch 'dirtier' than others-Warehouse/Storage??.

That said, Id like to order more 9mm and wondering if a SP is preferred or comparable, over the JHP for use against human targets where penetration & Expansion is a necessity.

I shoot a Sig 9mm & use Speer ammo, which I consider to be excellent, but Ive seen 30% more Energy with S & B, almost 600 FPE, 357 magnum territory.

Heres the Link & Thanks
Hunters-check out their Rifle ammo, Amazing Ballistics.

http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/ammunition-map.php?ammunition=pistol-and-revolver
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/
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Tony
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PostPosted: 12/12/08, 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't try to answer your question, but I will provide you with some info that might help you...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

Quote:
9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger,9x19mm, 9mm NATO, or simply "9mm")

This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the 9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only.

9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law enforcement usage.

I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).

Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table).

The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), and Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1).

For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1).

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)

Table Of 9mm Pistols.

(Note: just because your pistol appears in Class 3, say, doesn't mean it is unreliable: it may indeed feed hollowpoints. But you must fire at least 200 rounds of your chosen JHP carry load to determine if your pistol will feed them properly. I have placed pistols in each category according to reputation and experience. These are only meant as guidelines - your pistol may feed JHP rounds better - or worse - than this table indicates)

First Class pistols are ultra-reliable and high-quality new guns than can feed any hollowpoint and tolerate +P loads with no problems: SIG/Sauer P220 series. Czech CZ75 and CZ85. Walther P5, P5C, and P88. Heckler and Koch USP and P7 series. All Glocks. All Ruger 9mm pistols. Taurus PT-99, PT-92 and PT-92C. Steyr GB. Beretta 92 series. Browning BDM and Hi-Power (if it says "Portugal" on the slide). All Smith & Wessons with a four-digit model number (e.g. 5906, 3913, 6904, 5903) and the Smith & Wesson 900 series. Star M28, M30, M31, and all Firestars, Megastars, and Ultrastars.

Second Class pistols are high quality guns that may not feed all hollowpoints reliably. Remington 115 gr. hollowpoints are recommended for these guns: Smith & Wessons with two or three digit model numbers (e.g. 659, 39-2, 469, 59, 39). Heckler and Koch VP70 and P9S. Beretta "Brigadier" M1951 and the Egyptian copy, the Interarms "Helwan." Colt M2000 "All-American" (now discontinued, for good reason), Colt Series 70 Government Model, Series 70 Commander. Astra A-70, A-75 and A-100. AMT "On Duty." Daewoo. Bersa 'Thunder 9'. EAA Witness, and all other CZ-75 copies (e.g. Tanfoglio, Tanarmi, Springfield Armory P9). Taurus PT-908. Walther P4. Star BK, BKM, Model B and 'Super.' Browning Hi-Powers without the word "Portugal" on the slide. Llama Model 82. IMI "Jericho" and "Kareen."

Third Class pistols should generally be loaded with ball for best reliability - experiment with your gun extensively before carrying JHP: Walther P38, P4 or P1. Luger. Llama. Maverick. MKS Model JS. Intratec CAT-9, DC-9, KG-9, etc. SWD Cobray Model 11/9 and similar models. Scarab Scorpion. Kimel AP-9. Bryco Jennings Model 59. All KBI Hungarian pistols (e.g. GKK, PJ9C, P9HK and other "FEG" products). "Norinco" or "Sportarms" Chinese Tokarev pistols. Lahti. Radom. MAB P15 and Model 1950.
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Tony
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PostPosted: 12/12/08, 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another link that might help you out...

http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

Quote:
9 mm Parabellum Caliber: (9 mm Lugar, 9 mm NATO, 9 x 19 mm, 9 mm)
One Shot Stopping Success: 63-91% (Actual)
Self Defense Rating: Better
Recommended Cartridges:

Cor-Bon +P JHP 115 grains 91%
Federal +P+ JHP 115 grains 90%
Winchester +P+ JHP 115 grains 90%
Remington +P+ JHP 115 grains 89%
Federal "Hydra-Shok" +P+ JHP 124 grains 86%
Federal "Nyclad" LHP 124 grains 84%
Winchester "Silvertip" JHP 115 grains 83%
Federal JHP 115 grains 82%
Remington JHP 115 grains 81%
Federal "Hydra-Shok" JHP 124 grains 81%
CCI JHP 115 grains 79%


The 9 mm is the world's most popular pistol cartridge. In FMJ, with a one shot stopping success of only 63%, the 9 mm is not a superlative manstopper. Use ball ammunition for practice only. Use JHP for self defense.

The 9 mm cartridge exhibits penetration of 10 to 12 inches.

Ammunition for the 9 mm is available in three pressure classes: standard pressure, high pressure "+P", and ultra high pressure "+P+". High and ultra high pressure rounds should be used only in newer handguns manufactured since approximately 1985. It is best to use this ammunition sparingly.

The most powerful high pressure round, the Cor-Bon +P, JHP, 115 grains, is the best cartridge in 9 mm for self defense use due to its proven performance in real world aggressive encounters. In older guns, however, it may either not cycle properly or be too powerful. The best standard pressure cartridges are the Federal "Nyclad", LHP, 124 grains, and 115 grain, JHP ammunition produced by any of the top five manufacturers.

For modern guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal JHP, the Remington +P, JHP, 115 grains, may be a reliable alternative. The standard pressure Remington JHP, 115 grains, is well suited for use in most older guns.

For optimum performance, it is recommended that one not use any 9 mm JHP or LHP ammunition that is heavier than 124 grains.

The following 9 mm pistols are of extremely high quality and can be expected to reliably feed and accommodate 9 mm +P, JHP ammunition: SIG/Sauer P220 series; Czech CZ-75 and CZ-85; Walther P5, P5C, P88; Heckler and Koch USP and P7 series; Glocks (all); Rugers (all); Taurus PY-99, PT-92, and PT-92C; Steyr GB; Beretta 92 series; Browning BDM and Hi-Power (if "Portugal" is stamped on the slide); Smith & Wesson four-digit model number series; Smith & Wesson 900 series; Star M28, M30, M31; Firestar (all); Megastars (all); and Ultrastars (all).

High quality pistols that may not feed all JHP ammunition reliably include the following: Smith & Wesson three-and two-digit model number series; Heckler and Koch VP70 and P9S; Beretta "Brigadier" M1951; Interarms "Helwan"; Colt M2000 "All American"; Colt series 70 Government Model and series 70 Commander; Astra A-70, A-75, and A-100; AMT "On Duty"; Daewoo; Bersa "Thunder 9"; EAA "Witness"; Other CZ-75 copies, including Tanfoglio, Tanarmi, and Springfield Armory P9; Taurus PT-908; Walther P4; Star BK, BKM, Model B and "Super"; Browning Hi-Power (if "Portugal" is not stamped on the slide); Llama Model 82; and IMI "Jericho" and "Kareen". Remington JHP, 115 grains, is the ammunition recommended for the foregoing pistols.

The following pistols should be loaded with ball ammunition to ensure reliable operation. Winchester FMJ, 115 grains, which exhibits a 63% one shot stopping success, is recommended. Walther P38, P4, or P1; Luger; Llama; Maverick; MKS Model JS; Intratec CAT-9, DC-9, KG-9; SWD Cobray Model 11/9 and similar models; Scarab Scorpion; Kimel AP-9; Bryco Jennings Model 59; KBI Hungarian pistols, including GKK, PJ9C, P9HK, and other "FEG" products; Norinco or Sportarms Chinese Tokarev pistols; Lahti; Radom; and MAB P15 and Model 1950.

The foregoing guidelines regarding ammunition selection for various makes and models of 9 mm pistols are based on the generalized reputation and performance of these particular firearms. To see if a particular pistol will reliably feed JHP ammunition, it is advisable to fire at least 200 rounds of a selected JHP cartridge to properly ascertain a pistol's ability to properly cycle that round.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 12/13/08, 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help, Tony

I recall reading that piece a few months back on the net, I think

It seems a little dated though, because there is no mention of Speer Gold Dots, which is THE #1 used Law enforcement ammo on the market today and with a great reputation.
Works flawlessly in my Sig.

I may just pick up some Sellier 9mm SPs and try them for the fun of it but load the Speer at night.
Selliers 30-06 Barnes & Sierra Bullet loads looked excellent for big game and might get myself a box or 2 or that also.
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PostPosted: 01/11/09, 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony..

These are Stats on all 1 shot Stops,
Theyre based on actual police encounter shootings
9mm +p does very well, Speer, Federal & Corbon (88%-92%)
FYI
I fint these real world stats interesting.
I dont feel underpowered with my 9 anymore Smile

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=16&Weight=All

Best Loads of all guns
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0
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