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RAKOWSKI33
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PostPosted: 05/07/08, 10:30 pm    Post subject: REPLY Reply with quote

Actually you did misspell it in your last post. Not only are you ignorant, but you are illiterate as well.

I sure as the sun shines do not need any of your "education" as you so call it.

Please don't ever try to "contribute" to our fine breed. It's because of people like you that breed dogs such as yours that a field trial judge was mauled this year in Texas.
We already have enough temperment problems in our breed with backwoods people breeding who have no business doing so.

Good luck with your "protection work". I only pity you when your dog attacks some child, and takes you for all that you have. Then and only then, will you maybe figure it out when all you are left with is your funny little outfit and your stick.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 05/08/08, 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need more than an education. You need a labotomy.
You have more than a Poor misunderstanding of protection work. I would call it Abyssmal & Abomitable

I spelled GSD, correctly in both German & English.

You use 1 worst case example of a trial dog, that I bet you the deed of my house, was NOT protection trained or certed.
The trial you mentioned...Its Because of Irresponsible owners, trainers & breeders, that dogs act out.
Notice however, that the majority of dog bites are not caused by working dogs. Mostly poorly bred popular breeds... Labs, Poodles, Chows, Pits, Cockers & Mixes, lead the pack.
None are classified as Working dogs. I Dont think the "Wildly unpredictable Chessies", made the list.


Dog bites, in nations where protection work is often a breeding standard, among the 10 popular breeds..
(GSD, Rotts, Malinois, Dutchies, Dobes, Staffs, RS, Boxers, Airedales) is a Rarity & Non Occurance.
If you took the time to watch the video (Im sure you didnt as it requires time, youd see extrememly controlled & well trained dogs).
Ive owned over a half dozen Shepherds, raised in a family environment, with children, all were trained in protection. Never a problem.


Ill take my chances in a family environment with a well trained protection dog, over an ill bred nerve bag anyday.
Personal protection dogs are Sold Everyday to families with children.
And the dogs do their jobs, bond with the kids very well.
Labs are now the most frequent biters.

Canada just had their 1st Face replacement surgery performed.
The culprit was a Lab.
And a Dachshund recently chewed the genitals of a toddler in Chicago.
I still dont know what your point is.
Its desperate & demented & without any merit. A well trained, stable dog can perform any kind of work & distinguish friend from foe, & Protect his master & family. Thats why they were created by their founders.
You insist on fighting genetics.
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PostPosted: 05/08/08, 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: REPLY Reply with quote

RAKOWSKI33 wrote:
Actually you did misspell it in your last post. Not only are you ignorant, but you are illiterate as well.

I sure as the sun shines do not need any of your "education" as you so call it.

Please don't ever try to "contribute" to our fine breed. It's because of people like you that breed dogs such as yours that a field trial judge was mauled this year in Texas.
We already have enough temperment problems in our breed with backwoods people breeding who have no business doing so.

Good luck with your "protection work". I only pity you when your dog attacks some child, and takes you for all that you have. Then and only then, will you maybe figure it out when all you are left with is your funny little outfit and your stick.


I don't think I have ever read such a misinformed person's post. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 05/08/08, 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since 1975, over 30 breeds have been involved in fatal dog maulings. They include Labrador & Golden Retrievers, Pomeranians, Newfoundlands, Cocker Spaniel, Dachsund & Yorkshire terriers, among others.

I dare say the large majority of dog bites are Fear based. Or dogs guarding their food, toys or objects. The Human equation is the element I question the most.

Protection Work has NOTHING to do with any of this-especially fear biting. NOTHING. I cant emphasize this enough.

Police K9s are often in the public, taken to schools, & interacting with the population. Many serve double duty as family dogs. A cop friend of mine uses his dog in this capacity.
The large majority of SchH, PSA Sport dogs are family dogs as well.
You must distinguish between Stable & well trained, from an loose cannon. The 2 are mutually exclusive.
Traning & Prize emphasis is always on control in sport work.

Your Hyper sensitivity to protection work, is unfounded. It is misplaced hysteria & missplaced logic.
FYI-My bitch Draht has been poked & prodded, by 3 breed judges for over an Hour(required for every DD), is very social, & very loving, even to strangers..I occasionally use her as a guide hunt dog.

As far as being illiterate, I actually have a college degree from a Public Ivy University & trade currency for a living.
(Presently short the US Dollar, Long the Euro & Franc & doing quite well.)

Cheers.. Rakowski
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Jon
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PostPosted: 05/08/08, 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to side with whiskers on this one. I started in show dogs 50 years ago, and IMO, they are more often unstable than dogs that are evaluated for working purposes. I don't want to name names, but I am aware of many GWPs with poor temperament that have been bred numerous times - just so that more blue ribbons can be won with the offspring-including a top winning bitch bred recently (the owner warned me not to try to touch the dog!!).

I will only buy a dog from established working lines--for me they have proven to be more stable and most often of sound temperament. Ultimately, all dogs are only as good as the breeder making the decisions and the hands that train them.

Successful dogs in the protection games have to be extremely stable, obedient and mentally sound....or they wash out. Serious trainers in these pursuits are constantly evaluating every dog....looking for a reason to wash the dog out. If only some show folks were as critical.
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walltentwire
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PostPosted: 05/15/08, 8:41 pm    Post subject: club mentality Reply with quote

this discussion thread makes me think back to when I got my GWP pup and attended a couple of local pointing dog trial events.
it didn't take me long to realize a significant percentage of those attending were clearly insane.
I proceeded to simply train my own dog the way I hunt, by spending a few hundred hours running him into wild birds before he hit 10 months of age, and my wife loved him up to no end at home.
Now we have an excellent working dog who is a fine companion animal.
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PostPosted: 05/16/08, 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: club mentality Reply with quote

walltentwire wrote:
this discussion thread makes me think back to when I got my GWP pup and attended a couple of local pointing dog trial events.
it didn't take me long to realize a significant percentage of those attending were clearly insane.

I proceeded to simply train my own dog the way I hunt, by spending a few hundred hours running him into wild birds before he hit 10 months of age, and my wife loved him up to no end at home. Now we have an excellent working dog who is a fine companion animal.


Laughing Laughing Right on!! Laughing Laughing
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Jon
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PostPosted: 05/17/08, 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
this discussion thread makes me think back to when I got my GWP pup and attended a couple of local pointing dog trial events.
it didn't take me long to realize a significant percentage of those attending were clearly insane.
I proceeded to simply train my own dog the way I hunt, by spending a few hundred hours running him into wild birds before he hit 10 months of age, and my wife loved him up to no end at home.
Now we have an excellent working dog who is a fine companion animal.


We do need to remember they are for hunting. However, great dogs that die unknown don't profit any breed. That's the purpose of events for me--so that others can see and evaluate dogs. The titles are for the people---feel good stuff. Seeing the quality of the work, coat, conformation and especially the temperament is what its about. When good dogs don't contribute, we're playing a losing game.
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walltentwire
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PostPosted: 05/17/08, 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confident the club crowd can hash it all out just fine without me, and I'm sure I'll be able to find a good pup when I'm ready for one.
I just want to have some high quality hunting vacations and hang out with some good ol boys and have some fun. I've had 4 excellent seasons over this dog, and that's what I'm in it for.
Good luck to all, I'm outta here.
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PostPosted: 05/17/08, 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
Quote:
this discussion thread makes me think back to when I got my GWP pup and attended a couple of local pointing dog trial events.
it didn't take me long to realize a significant percentage of those attending were clearly insane.
I proceeded to simply train my own dog the way I hunt, by spending a few hundred hours running him into wild birds before he hit 10 months of age, and my wife loved him up to no end at home.
Now we have an excellent working dog who is a fine companion animal.


We do need to remember they are for hunting. However, great dogs that die unknown don't profit any breed. That's the purpose of events for me--so that others can see and evaluate dogs. The titles are for the people---feel good stuff. Seeing the quality of the work, coat, conformation and especially the temperament is what its about. When good dogs don't contribute, we're playing a losing game.


Most there would not know what a decent dog for hunting is if they were examining it.....they don't hunt enough to know better. They also are not around any of the dogs enough to really know what the dog's temperament/personality really is. Only the really obvious temperament problems would be noticable. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
When good dogs don't contribute, we're playing a losing game.


Good dogs according to who? Laughing Laughing
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Jon
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PostPosted: 05/18/08, 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Good dogs according to who?


Are there that many definitions of what a good versatile is? Laughing

Quote:
Most there would not know what a decent dog for hunting is if they were examining it


I think there are quite a few folks at Hunt Tests, FT, NSTRA, VGP, UT, etc tests that know what a good dog is. Gives the opportunity for others to learn.

I say again, good dogs that we never see or hear about are wasted, as far as the breed goes...and that's any breed. I realize that there are folks that don't give a rats butt about any breed...they just want to hunt. They take and let the others do the work...of the breed, I mean.
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PostPosted: 05/18/08, 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
Quote:
Good dogs according to who?


Are there that many definitions of what a good versatile is? Laughing

Quote:
Most there would not know what a decent dog for hunting is if they were examining it


I think there are quite a few folks at Hunt Tests, FT, NSTRA, VGP, UT, etc tests that know what a good dog is. Gives the opportunity for others to learn.

I say again, good dogs that we never see or hear about are wasted, as far as the breed goes...and that's any breed. I realize that there are folks that don't give a rats butt about any breed...they just want to hunt. They take and let the others do the work...of the breed, I mean.


Other guys like you....right? Rolling Eyes
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 05/19/08, 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repoman...Jon actually Has contributed to the betterment of the breed

He bred GWPs, excellent dogs in the NAVHDA & in the FT world I believe.
I think hes now more committed to the DD & has pretty extensive knowledge on the breed.
He holds a position in a Chapter of a Regional DD Group, involved in Navhda & has been helpful to me when I had questions.

I wouldnt be so quick to bash or judge..
Golly, Cant we all just get along?
Where have I heard that before?!
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PostPosted: 05/19/08, 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh OK.........a club guy. Rolling Eyes
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 05/20/08, 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repoman..
Id be very interested in you detailing more of your thoughts & sentiments regarding "Clubs", be they breed clubs with standards or Hunt clubs.

Why the Sarcasm & Disdain?
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