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He isn't coming back

 
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Sundowner
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 02/13/06, 6:00 am    Post subject: He isn't coming back Reply with quote

Max is now 8 months old and doing really well, errrr hmmm, apart from ....once in while he decides he has to explore the woods and fields around and well, he comes back when he wants to, which is usually1-2 hrs later. He does not react AT ALL when I call him, and just runs. Now, I usnderstand that this is perfectly normal for a puppy his age, but undesirable in my case. Any ideas on how to address this?
thanks for any ideas
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Jon
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PostPosted: 02/13/06, 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to get a handle on this right away or you will be digging a hole to put the dog in.

Assuming you have done the short lead, long lead, and then the confined area "come" training, it is probably time to use the e-collar before the dog becomes road kill. Put the collar on the dog every day for a week and do NOTHING. Put it on before you go for your walk so that the collar is a positive signal. I highly recommend the Dogtra 200NCP-it is reasonable, powerful enough and it has a vibrate function that is very useful, as I will explain. (I don't work for Dogtra!!").

Take the dog for a run. When the dog is at the distance where you don't want him to go any farther, blow the whistle and hold the vibration for 3 seconds. If the dog does not respond, use continuous stimulation until the dog turns in your direction-then release. (The level of stimulation should NOT be punishing-only highly annoying-it may cause the dog to scratch, shake its head, maybe whimper. Start at a lower level and increase til you find the level to which the dog responds. Screaming should be avoided.). As soon as the dog has turned and seen you, turn and walk in a different direction. DO NOT encourage the dog to come all the way back unless you intend to collar the dog unless the run is over. In this case, whistle again, use the vibration and slap your left side with your hand (during the come training on lead, a few treats in your left pocket which you slap when you say come, will "set up" this visual in the field.)

Now I'm sure this all sounds stupid to some so let me explain. In time, you will only need to use the vibrate function to recall or handle the dog. The dog will learn not to come all the way into you but rather swing back in front of you UNLESS you vibrate the collar again and slap your left side with a big motion. By the time the dog is 14-16 months, you are able to hunt silently, no whistle or yelling. When the collar vibrates, the dog swings back to eyeball you, when you vibrate the collar again and motion to your side the dog will come to heel. And all the while the wild birds three fields over will be none the wiser. This silent handling is also very useful in the duckblind, when used with hand signals. The secret to this method is not to overuse the function at the beginning-you will not accomplish all this in three days. You don't want to create a dog that anticipates your recall and starts to work "short" in front of you. Be patient and pick your opportunities where the dog has the best chance to respond. DO NOT complicate this procedure by talking and verbalizing a lot with the dog. The less said the better. You only praise the dog when he is recalled all the way to you. Otherwise you are simply keeping the dog in the "field", which is your comfort zone. NEVER do any of this if your young dog is making game. I know all of this may sound complicated, but it is actually very simple and there is nothing like a dog that you don't have to speak to in the field. I usually have this accomplished by the time a pup is 10 months old without sacrificing the run and search that the pup may have. If you are intending to field trial this dog, disregard all I have said. This method is for normal, strong running gun dogs.

I'm sure you will get more tips and ideas from others.
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Sundowner
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PostPosted: 03/03/06, 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,
thank you very much for your reply! I was already thinking about an e-collar, however, they are not too easy to come by over here and slightly frowned upon. I will have a look at this Dogtra100NCP though, may have to order it via the internet. Thanks again!
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walltentwire
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PostPosted: 03/04/06, 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't let the anti e collar crowd get to you. using the tritronics 200XL has given me a great advantage in handling my dog close to unfenced freeways and kept him out of harms way many, many times. By working habitat that others don't have the confidence to run in, you'll get more working time and less travel time too.

Just use common sense and don't use any more power than you need to, and always try to time a correction perfectly. My dog now works very effectively with few audible commands, or collar corrections. Its almost all hand signals and body language for him at age 2.
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Leadhead
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PostPosted: 04/02/06, 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never, Never, Ever give a command that you cannot enforce, and don’t give commands that the dog has not learned! This is rural number one in training. The dog that you are working with should not be off a leash or check cord at any time. This will maintain your sanity and the dog’s safety. I do believe that e-collars have a place in training but your dog must understand the commands first. We trainers have a way of giving are charges a human personally but after 30 years of dog training I have yet to see a dog that was “willfully” disobedient. Confusion and not understanding the command are at the root of your problem. Recall commands are simple but time consuming, you are conditioning the pup to want to be with you. You want to develop a pup that is not overly dependent on you, but always has one eye on you. Ok you say how do I do this? You do this with companionship, trust, praise, and reward (fun). The command COME is never a negative of any type (put on a lead, put in a kennel, etc.). No matter what the provocation, you never call the pup in to you, and then punish it! Yard work in a fenced yard is where to start. Let the pup run free, set up situations so the pup must look for you, go behind a bush, around a corner. When the pup finds you praise or reward the pup, do this from time to time. Call the pup to you “COME” not come here, not get over here, just “COME”, clap you hands, stand on you head whatever it takes to have the pup come to you. If the pup doses not come to you use a check cord and gently pull the pup to you. When the pup gets to you praise and reward the pup. When using a check cord when the pup starts to come to you on its own, stop using the cord. Do this over and over make it a game. Remember it takes time, do not get mad at the pup, if you start to get mad stop training and start over the next day. You are top dog and the pup is looking for his place in the pack and will see what they can get away with. Should the pup regress or start to not obey the command, bring back the check cord or e-collar and start again. A word on punishment, I have found that with GWP’s a harsh word, a mean face, and a cold shoulder dose more than a wipe to get you point across. Hope this helps and Never, Never, Ever forget rural number one.
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Sundowner
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PostPosted: 05/16/06, 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to let all of you whom were kind enough to help me that Max is doing extremely well.
I had a sit down and a good think (one thing I should have done a long time ago) what it actually is I wanted Max to do.
I then met up with the local game keeper who has a springer same age as Max.
We decided to train both dogs together ....... well folks, what a difference in my dog's overall attitude and behaviour. I also got myself a whistle and after using it twice (!!!!) he now comes back every time. He just seems a totally different dog. Only yesterday he scented a rabbit (which he would usually chase straight away and then NOT return) and came straight back when I whistled.
This is all I want for now, he still only 11 months old and I intend to keep this up for a good few month to come. Also, when he points he sits on command (every time). I surely could not ask for more right now.
Once more, many thanks for all your help!
BTW, Leadhead should you read this post let me tell you that your post really made me think. You really hit the nail on the head and I wish I could tell you more about the result Laughing
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dualgwp
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PostPosted: 05/16/06, 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's great to hear turnarounds with these dogs. Thanks for posting.
Too many give up too quickly and never realize the true potential of their dogs.
A great dog takes time, patience and training! If you take the time, have the patience, and commit to the training.....
The dog can't do it by himself, it's a team effort!!!!!

Keep us posted.
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