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how to start

 
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AmmoMike
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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Location: Wichita Falls TX

PostPosted: 09/09/03, 3:46 am    Post subject: how to start Reply with quote

One quick question guys. The breeder "said" he started Deja on point, and to keep at it with her. He said to find something that even looks like a bird and have her point it. WELL SHE DONT POINT REAL BIRDS. at least not that I see. there are birds out in our yard almost always and she is to busy sniffing the world to see them. Now i know they are just black birds and other junk birds but at 8 weeks should she know the difference? or am i just underestemating her and she sniffing them out to find them.

Now for the question. How do I start her on point?
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bwalther19044
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PostPosted: 09/11/03, 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had questions too and found the video - "Silent Hunting, No Whistles, No Whoas" -- "A step by step training guide for the novice trainer" -- it really gave some good info -- I'm sure there are other tapes and books out there, but this helped us. (from Mason Creek Kennel) Also see if there is a NAVHDA chapter in your area -- they have some great training sessions.
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outdoorsman
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PostPosted: 09/11/03, 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am no expert. In fact I don't even have enough experience to qualify as an amatuer. But my GWP is 8 months old. Birds land in the back yard and he doesn't even pay attention. But when I take him in the field he just naturally seems to find the birds and point. I don't know why the difference. I imagine as he gets older and some more hunts under his collar the birds in the back yard will be fair game to him too.

I would look at Navhda or your local GWP club for help training. Get her on some birds. and let the natural instict come out.
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Keith
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PostPosted: 09/11/03, 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some dogs care very little about birds in the yard. Almost all of them will eventually ignore them. It is different in the field. They will ignore most tweety birds but get excited about game birds. Some will point meadowlarks in the field. They don't usually hold very good. When you are hunting and show no interest in these birds they will learn to ignore them. Now a rabbit or a squirrel is different. They will chase them or point them even in the yard.
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Indiana Mitch
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PostPosted: 09/11/03, 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 14 month old GWP attempts to catch the doves and what-not in the yard... especially the squirrel that eats 20% of my bird seed.

However... in the field, she has always hunted hard and slammed to a point when she made bird SCENT. She has done this since I've owned her at 5 months of age.

If you must see your pup point, tie a small piece of cloth to a 6 foot string... put the other end on a pole... and flip it out in front of her but DON'T let her catch it. After a few attempts, she'll point. Or at least there's a very good chance she will.

My GWP points the cats too. Especially the little one that loves to sneak into the computer room/den/dog room and mess with the dogs. Sophie will, sometimes, point the cat for 5 minutes, while that cat stands near the gate, hoping Sophie will chase her.

A pigeon hidden in the weeds, upwind, will probably bring your dog to a nice, pretty, point.
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brdshootr
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PostPosted: 09/19/03, 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert either but from what I have read a pup that young does not have a very large field of vision. At 8 weeks she probably can only see the world around her within 30 feet or so. My 3 mo. old male will sight point a pheasant wing but when we are out in a field his nose is so overwhelmed with new scents he sometimes doesn't see the rabbit that flushed just ahead of him. I think all this will change with age and maturity and exposure to more and more new scents. I wouldn't get too worried just yet.

Carl
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Baron
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PostPosted: 09/29/03, 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not uncommon. Many dogs will not point, or even pay attention to, “trash” birds. Neither one of my dogs ever pointed them as pups, but both pointed intensely the first time they were exposed to game birds (quail, chuckar, & pheasant). In fact, my oldest dog wouldn’t point pigeons until I shot a couple for him (he didn’t see them as game birds). I guess he now sees them as something I want to hunt, so he will point them. Don’t worry about your pup. Just start exposing it to game birds as much as possible and its natural instincts will take over.
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hartwick
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PostPosted: 02/18/05, 11:11 am    Post subject: Want to get my GWP training going Reply with quote

I have a 6 month old GWP. I've done some basics with him: sit, stay, come (with silent whistle). He's responded very well to date. I need to take him to the next level.

I want him to be extremely solid on all the obedience basics. He's primarily a family dog, but I still want to be able to take him out to the field.

Any recommendations on books, training methods, etc. I have ordered Joan Bailey's book and am looking at the NAVHDA "green book" and video.

BTW. When out for walks in the forest (off line) he really shows what he was bred to do. He flushed a couple of grouse 2 days ago.
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Tony
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PostPosted: 02/19/05, 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Want to get my GWP training going Reply with quote

hartwick wrote:

BTW. When out for walks in the forest (off line) he really shows what he was bred to do. He flushed a couple of grouse 2 days ago.


No! He is supposed to POINT the grouse, and you are supposed to flush them. Wink

IMO, it is hard to beat Joan Bailey's book. The NAVHDA green book is okay, but I wouldn't waste the money for the video unless you have never hunted over or seen a pointing dog work. Another book that I have found useful is Puppy Psychology von der Versatile Viewpoint. I am pretty sure that it was written by Larry Rogers, but I wouldn't know where to find a copy. You may want to check out some of the DD sites.
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hartwick
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PostPosted: 02/19/05, 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it. Thanks.
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Chukarman
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PostPosted: 02/20/05, 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A mike.
One of the very best training videos I have in my Gun Dog Library for a trainer to get a pup started on birds is the "Silent Hunting" video.
The Mason Creek Video in my opinion helps the begginer at the early stages of the pups training where all other Videos I have ever seen(and I've seen many) leave a void.

The Silent Hunting Video along with the book by Bill Tarrant"The best way to Train Your Gun Dog" the Delmar Smith Method is all one needs to get going on the right track.

The otherthing I would do is to join a pointing breed club in your area for hands on help.
Hope that helps you.

Best.
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Kirk R. Bynum
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PostPosted: 02/21/05, 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the process of getting my first GWP as well. I had a GSP and he never paid any attention to "yard birds" period.

I have read in several posts the suggestion to look at the NAVHDA "Green BooK". Where would you go to get your hands on a copy of said book. I have never heard of a local NAVHDA presence here. But there are alot of things I have nere heard of.
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hartwick
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PostPosted: 02/22/05, 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at www.navhda.org. You can order the green book and other items from their site. They also give a complete listing of local chapters.

Hope this helps.
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hartwick
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PostPosted: 06/01/05, 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an update. We found a local, very experienced trainer. She's got 100 acres of fenced property and lots of birds for training. He's got 2 passes out of 2 tries for his Field Dog Junior and should finish this weekend. We'll also put him in NAVHDA Natural Ability in the fall.

Best advice on how to start. Find a good trainer with real birds.
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whiskerdog1
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PostPosted: 06/02/05, 8:21 am    Post subject: Point Reply with quote

Guys.. you got tto be kidding me. An 8 week old pup! And the owner is frustrated it isnt pointing backyard birds!
You have alot more work to do before you introduce gamebirds to this dog. Like,. let pup experience life and be a pup. Whats the saying give flowers some water and they grow. Give them TOO MUCH water and they die.
I really dont introduce or expect point work from my dogs until 5-6months minimum depending on the maturity of the pup. After that age, I work them frequently-at least once or twice a week. Yea Navhda or GWP club is great but lets not overlook the obvious. The pup was given life 8weeks ago. If I was the breeder Id say slow the hell down and relax!
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