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VDD vs. GWP
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cheerio
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Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: 01/05/04, 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike you Jon P., I do see a need for the confirmation ring. It is a way for breeders to get the opinion of judges as to the representation of the breed in their dogs. Why breed a dog if he is not representativ of what the breed supposed to be. It is also a good way for a breeder to find out if the dog bred by 2 dogs according to standard is also representative of the breed, since it is very possible for 2 good dogs to produce terrible dogs.
Having said that, I am very sorry to see the AKC like the CKC limit themselves to giving CH to dogs on the sole basis of physical attributs. Even the shyest or the most aggressive of them can be taught to stand for examination.
Dogs were bred for a purpose. Each breed has a purpose, and it is really sad to see that our national clubs do not take any notice of it. If a CH title is the certification that a particular dog represent well his/her breed, then, the purpose of the dog, his proper workability should also be examine. If it was so, there would be far less confusion as to what line is what, and we would stop having beautiful useless dogs and, strange looking great workers. In North America, we have now come to a fork in the road of breeding, with 2 breeds for each breed: the working breed and the show breed. What a pitty! This in my view can only be to the detriment of the breed. Most countries in Europe does test both, confirmation and workability (in which is included temperament), so why can't we?
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Jon P
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PostPosted: 01/05/04, 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheerio,
IMO, your supposition is flawed. TOO MANY GWPs finish that should never be given a title. the reason that so many overstripped, soft coated dogs are labeled a CH is because a judge is pressured to give the points. If they don't and become known as too rigorous in their judging, they don't get the entries and they don't get the assignments. Its business - BIG business.

The reason that the European system has worked better to produce a complete dog is that they have always put performance and temperament first and then supplied pressure through evaluations of coat and conformation on breeders to find an edge over their fellow breeders. 3 years ago, the Hegewald scoring was changed. Now the Average of the coat and conformation score is added to the performance total giving the edge to the physically better equipped dog. There are NO titles within the VDD for beauty, and no coat/conformation evaluations are made without performance minimums being attained. In other words, without ability beauty doesn't matter. On the other side, performance comes first but the edge will be given to the better built dog.

Imagine if the GWPCA National was changed such that no dog could enter the ring that had not passed some kind of performance evaluation and had come from dogs that had done the same test. That would wrinkle a few brows...

Competing doesn't establish quality - evaluation has a much better chance.
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maverickdvm
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PostPosted: 01/05/04, 6:22 pm    Post subject: 4-H involvement Reply with quote

4-H is a great arena to get your daughter and dog involved in. Around here, it is very non-biased about the dog, it is all about the kid and their ability to work with the dog. At our fair, they have conformation, obedience and agility. One of the top winning dogs this year was a previously crippled(from an injury) old mix dog of some variety. The dog's handler put a lot of work in to that dog and it showed!!! Usually you can find out about the 4-H in your area from the cooperative extension service in your county.
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ENL
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PostPosted: 01/06/04, 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: 4-H involvement Reply with quote

maverickdvm wrote:
4-H is a great arena to get your daughter and dog involved in. Around here, it is very non-biased about the dog, it is all about the kid and their ability to work with the dog. At our fair, they have conformation, obedience and agility. One of the top winning dogs this year was a previously crippled(from an injury) old mix dog of some variety. The dog's handler put a lot of work in to that dog and it showed!!! Usually you can find out about the 4-H in your area from the cooperative extension service in your county.


Mav--

Actually, I got all the 4-H stuff today from a local high school club. Very cool. I think that's the way we're going to go. (Now...if I can just get my daughter trained as well as the dog Very Happy .)

ENL
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